The Dumbing down of America

BTW, if you are in a science related field, tests are a good indication of intelligence. Most classes, such as liberal arts classes, require you to memorize stuff, and then spit it back out. Take an advanced ordinate differential equations class, and you will not only have to know it, but understand it to apply it on a test. If you have a hard time with math, there is a good chance that your IQ is not anything to write home about.

 

Andy Grove (one of the founders of Intel) said on Charlie Rose that "it is hard to do chemistry at 10 and differential equations at 14". He seemed to be saying that we should have kids doing it though.

 

That explains why a large number of students score below the 50% range now days.

Would you be so kind as to list a few contributions this "kind" of person has made to humanity? Especially Political Science people, what good are they to society?

For all I know ajm, you could be the smartest person in Arizona, but that isn't what the point of this thread is all about. In fact, you could be the exception that everyone is looking for and can't seem to find. I'm talking of a much broader picture and only in generalities. Dont be so defensive, simmer down and lets just talk. I'm NOT trying to convince you of anything!

 

Also, I am going to have to disagree that non-science majors have a more diverse knowledge base. All science majors are forced to take about 20-30 credits of liberal arts classes, so they have that base covered, as well as chemistry, microbiology, math, physics, engineering, biology etc.

 

Well, the diploma is just a stepping stone. You don't see too many Forester's in the USAF, but there are a few officers who have degrees with Communications and Physical Education, LOL. These are the ones who end us as the Squadron Commanders and go no further. The Peter Principle at it's best...

Bone

 

Sorry, Dan, but the politician is the one who negotiated the trade deal with China so that every American could have a water-fuel car. Just because you don't get a tangible result doesn't mean that job is any less important.

 

And yet, once again, you are flaunting your resume at me.

 

Communications majors: Media people (which is how our society disseminates important information), Public Relations people (who provide an advertising spin on new products, including new advances in sciences and mathematics), novelists, journalists, newspaper writers and editors, etc.

Arts majors: architectural design, advertising design (so that the consumer will be tempted to buy one product over another), any number of jobs that are there so that the world has art, photography, etc.

Political Sciences majors: International Ambassadors, Politicians, Lawyers, CEO's of major corporations, think tank members (who are helping to provide new methods for saving money, creating fuel efficient cars, alternative fuel cars, etc.), members of bureaucracies, members of the CIA, FBI, NSA, DHS, etc. (who are helping to make our country safer), among others.

Okay, I am simmering now. Now would you please tell me what the point of this thread is? I understand it as a thread attacking younger generations of Americans by stating that they are less intelligent than your generations of the 1920s-1930s (which I got from your profile, just so you don't think I'm being facetious), with respect to test scores from other countries from around the world. If that is indeed the topic, I think I have made a few good points here in that the decline of test scores is possibly related to less of a need for the hard maths and sciences which these tests are based on, and more on a necessity for more people to go into the majors that certain of us on here would consider to be less worth one's time than others (like microbiology and advanced math). In addition, intelligence is relative, like I said. When you look at the figures, when the country was in the 1940s and 1950s, our math and science test scores were higher because of a greater need for jobs that had those bases (namely for the advances in science and technology like computers that were made during that and subsequent decades). In the 1980s- present, however, there is less of a need for those disciplines and so more time can be (and should be) spent on disciplines like the arts, communications, physical education, etc. I believe this is a direct cause of these lowered test scores and does not relate to a lapse in the intellect in schoolchildren, but rather a shift away from the necessity for some to go in other areas of expertese. And just so you don't get the impression that I believe that sooner or later we'll do away with math and science all together, I do have many friends or acquaintences who are math majors right now or sciences majors. They are necessary disciplines, but not for everyone. I don't believe that ALL kids have to excell in math or science or the other things that kids are tested on and then compared to foreigners for them to be able to excell outside of the classroom.

~AJ

 

Actually I'm not, as none of those things would ever go on my resume. Perhaps if I was a political science major looking for a job, I might need to put those, in order to make it seem like I did something to fill my time during school, and not just putzing around, however I don't need those things.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Big Shot Math Dude. I bow to your intellect and greatness. It's obvious now that you have had a much better and more fulfilling life than I have because you are so altruistic. I am terribly sorry to have wasted any of your time here in this forum, and I will simply go and enroll in every math class I can, take microbiology, donate all my posessions, and go volunteer at every event that I can before I die.

 

Everyone at the college level should be exposed to both the hard sciences and objective political science not mind control that is being taught by various professors. But they are not which is why I guess this thread was posted.

 

Here is the main reason I posted this thread Andy. I finally found the site that will tell it far better than I ever could. We know we have people around here who support such organizations as the ACLU because they don't want to loose any of their freedoms and "rights". Well, I hope they read this material and learn just what is actually being lost these days. Have fun!

http://www.articlealley.com/article_11575_22.html

 

dont worry guys in another 20 years the employment rate will boom when china and india starts outsourcing to us to make their shoes.

laugh now, make shoes later.

the good news will be that everyone will work 1000 times harder in school to win that internship in that foreign corporations.

so just give it time and we will get smarter again.

 

Old Dan that article is very odd. It completely ignores the fact that there are thousands of private and religious schools and home schooling available (not to mention charter schools which are free).

 

Zaneman and AJ why don't you guys just enjoy the college weekend, have a drink and look for a pretty girl to dance with. And if you can not find any pretty girls just have a few more drinks till they all look pretty.

Like I said before, everything is math and chemistry. Math is that the law of averages are, if you approach enough girls sooner or later you will find one that likes you and the chemistry is if you drink enough you will like them all.

enjoy.

 

Yes, but only the few who do NOT take money from the federal government. There are strings attached and there is always the NEA looking over everyones shoulder to see how it is being spent.

What I don't understand is your statement "not to mention charter schools which are free". Free to who and where do you think the money came from that pays the expenses for those charter schools. It is true there are people that have not payed their share of the costs at any thing, but for the majority of us, WE pay the bill and some ...... gets to go "free". Is that what you are referring to with this statement?

Here is another good read for you Dan, it is from one of your reference authorities, so I'm sure you will approve.
http://www.asu.edu/educ/epsl/EPRU/peer_reviews/cerai-00-19.htm

 

Dan I do not really disagree with you that much on education (privitization may help, and real competition could be good also). I was just saying that there are many charter schools with alternative curriculum and they do not charge parents anything. These schools are for profit private schools that receive property tax money. Are you opposed to any property tax for education purposes, would you have parents just do what they can with their kids? or do you like vouchers for the $6000.00+/- per student with which the parents could send their kids to religious schools? By the way great link thanks

 

Zaneman and AJ---you both need to settle down...if I have to have a "college Ed" and "such and so" to be anything in this world...then I'll be a "bum" in your eyes....I hope I never go to college (I don't know a college that offers Coin Classes...and Law Officer would be next and there is a Law school in my town....) and I would much rather read a book and learn on my own....both of you are different people....and both have things you can do that the other can't....BIG DEAL---get over it.... lets get back to a better topic

Speedy

 

Q. How does one make a former government major's car go faster?

A. Remove the big pizza sign from the roof. Too much drag.

 

Odd article, Dan. I can see the point of the writer, but I disagree with it. I see it as that Congress can make all laws deemed to be necessary and proper for the country. Education for all citizens is necessary to preserve our society and economy, and proper in that without education, our country would not have gotten to where it is today, or will keep it on track for the future. (And yes, despite the presumptions of some, our country is still on track for the future.)

~AJ