Why does the left view themselves as idealistic eliteist

Christian and Rick was it not Hitler who joined and later led the National Socialistic Workers Party. I posted earlier in this thread some outtakes of the party's "platform". Now if you want to say he hijacked the party well that is one of my points with how the leftist leadership misinforms and misleads the rank and file with who they really are as being idealistic when they are far from that with their "political correctness". My point also was that the far left is as dangerous as the far right and they are really the one and the same once they gain power. The problem in this country right now is that the left is mispresenting history and the facts of today whereas a liberal seems like a moderate, a moderate seems like a conservative and a conservative is painted as a right wing nut by the mass media, leftywood, and for the most part "university leftist elite" and that is just the beginning.

Now I am all for socialism. I live in a country filled with wonderful socialistic programs like unemployment insurance, student-loans, workday restrictions, child labor restrictions, Social Security,medicare, mediaid, free and reduced school breakfast programs, free and reduced school lunch programs, free school snack and afterschool programs, free child care for the poor, welfare, food stamps, free and reduced public housing etc.......However the socialistic/communist ideas that have been made mainstreamed have always been balanced with a strong moderate viewpoint and conservative fiscal spending, a strong moral base that is proud to believe in god and respects others with their beliefs and a right leaning defensive policy.
But the leftwing here does not want that balance and are undermining the nation as a whole to take away what keeps us together. The only religion that they support is Islam and now the question to ask is where is their funding coming from and how much is it from overseas.

Glaciermi,
Now look at Bush as an example of how the left preverts the preception of who someone is, He has given more money away then any other President, he has supported illegal alliens with getting full free medical benefits, free public schooling, college scholarships, generous start your own business loans, he sends a ton of money over to other nations, the federal judges he appoints or puts up for Supreme Court are moderates at best and he is painted like a right winger. Go figure.

Rambo: You have a your own tread topic there comparing abuses of the old catholic church with the inquisition to the teachings of Islam.

 

I really don't think the politics of that time can correlate to today's politics, the line between right and left back then were very narrow. Hitler and Stalin are brought up, as they have much more relevance to today, than the spanish inquisition which happened 500 years ago.

 

Indeed, but what's in a name? Between 1949 and 1990, for example, there were two Germanies. One was called "Federal Republic of Germany", the other one was the "German Democratic Republic". Now guess which was the democratic country.

(There are many other similar and even current examples, e.g. Democratic People's Republic of Korea. I just wanted to pick the one that is around the corner, so to say.)

And while anti-semitism was or is certainly not a phenomenon among the extreme right only, the parties on the left in pre-1933 Germany (communists, social democrats) were not anti-semitic. The nazis on the other hand ...

Christian

 

Back to the original question. I seriously doubt anyone walks around thinking of themselves as "idealistic elitists". I think more acurately it is you that think of the left as "idealistic elitists". But that isn't the question you asked, is it? You assumed from the beginning that they had this view of themselves. What do you think idealistic elitists means anyway? And how do you defining the "left" so broadly as to have lost all real meaning.

 

Yes, there were two Germanies
and you are right that one called itself the German Democratic Republic
and as we both know it was communist which we both know is leftist
which shows how the left twists the truth until the lie
is taught as the truth
as I am sure it was in East German children's texbooks and universitys.

Yes there are two Koreas
and as we both know the Democratic Peoples Republic is communist
which is leftest
which is another example of the left preverting the truth for its own means.

Moen you got to be kidding me, the left with their control of most major media, the universities, the ACLU which will sue anyone who does not obey them and hollywood propoganda images has caused most of this country to be hesistant and/or scared with speaking the truth that the term "politically correct" was "coined".
and no I do not think that the pompous morally ill are what they try to portray themselves as. The major problem with the left is that all of their good ideas were taken into American Mainstream a long time ago and now the leftist leadership and it's followers are only "left" with "hate" for the most part.


QUOTE=rick]I always thought him to be something of a fascist... [/QUOTE]

Rick, look up the Wikipedia definition of fascist and you will see the following:

"Fascism was typified by attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life. The definitional debates and arguments by academics over the nature of fascism, however, fill entire bookshelves. There are clearly elements of both left and right ideology in the development of Fascism."

Hitler joined and became the leader of "The National Socialist Workers Party".
He was not a world socialist but a Nationalistic Socialist and his speeches were filled with not only hatred and Aryan stuff but also with left wing socialist proganda. I posted some of the 25 points of Hitler's National Socialist Workers Party proposals, it you look back at it you will see where I am coming from.

Basically the left gave Hitler a make-over.

 

You just had to put your foot back into it, didn't your bake-&-shake.

Well, I'm not even going to bother with you this time, as Andy is more than holding his own on this thread. Go ahead Andy, you jerk on the strings for a while and see if you can make him dance and prance some more!

 

so let me see if i got this. leftist idealist are the ones who take control of economicaly week countrys(germany russia cambodia).is this only because the people have no way to rebuild their way of life on their own and need the govenments help/control. and stronger economic countrys outgrow the need for any type of government control. what would katrina's aftermath look like with out that kind of leftist government stepping in? jsut food for thought.

and also i listen to alot of talk radio mainly right side of the spectrum and the majority of everyone i hear sounds like idealistic elitest. and when im done with that i wash t all down with a nice glass of cnn and daily show.

 

oh and i cant beleive this has made it to page 4. nothing like a good dose of friendly debate.

 

I can't believe this has made it to page 4 and I haven't posted here yet! I'm getting better!

 

I thought I re-post this for those who have not seen it. Hitler was a leftist but as the left always done they reinvented him to suit their purpose by making him into a member of the right.

Taken from "The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party" a historical document that is not discussed in the universitys of this nation of listed in the textbooks of High School students for it shows the nazis were actually sociaists. True that they were national socialists but never the less they were still left wing socialists.

7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.
13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.
15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.
17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.
19. We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.
20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.
21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

Now it is easy to paint a leftist as a member of the far far right for there is little difference between them. No tolerance to any freedom of thought which in this country translate to suppressing truth by enforcing "politically correctness" thru law suits, name calling and labeling.

"and also i listen to alot of talk radio mainly right side of the spectrum and the majority of everyone i hear sounds like idealistic elitest", rambozo.

There is little difference between Al Franklin and Rush and his clones except Al is more ruthless for he is less intelligent. As for his TV writings, show me one orginal idea. I am not a fan of either.

However, the right, the conservatives and the moderates rule talk radio for with the exception of Fox news, that is the only place you have real exposure to them.

 

"im good enough, smart enough, and gosh darnit people like me"

 

well, Al Frankin, like Jon Steward, is actually quite intelligent, their opinions are just not shared by many republicans, and they mix their thoughts with humor, which generally makes it easier to discount.

To say that these 21 points of Hitler is 'leftist', as we in the US view leftist ideology, is just not accurate. How a man like this gains power, is usually an means to an end, and nothing more. At the time, Germany was experiencing major economic depression - which is usually a perfect time to gain power under the flag of major reform. People were starving, and money was devalued from paycheck to grocery store... It's a breeding ground for dangerous ideas, under a banner of a centralized economy and socialization so 'this sort of thing just doesn't happen anymore. We'll make sure you're taken care of.'

It's nothing new, and it isn't particularly 'leftist', nor are most of those 21 points you listed.

 

Al Franklin uses the old mob baiter mentality of attacking with hatred and then acting pious or smug depending upon your view. An example of this would be his book, "Rush Limbough is a big fat idiot".Now, are you trying to tell me that calling someone a "big fat idiot" is an intelligent expression of one's command of the english language. Or is it nothing more then street trash. Yes he is good with twisting the truth as it fits him but that is nothing to brag about. He is not expounding upon any lexicon.

Now this country adopted a lot of left wing ideas before, during and after the American Depression. So it may not be understood today that our Social Security, our child labor laws, our minimal wage laws, our work day laws, the food programs, our unemployment insurance, etc... all came from the socialist, communist, and union platforms.

With that said, we live in a nation that is very much socialist so Americans might not realize that things that were written in 1920, like Hitlers 25 points, were considered radical left wing statements back then and some of those points are still stated by communist leaders. Hitler was a nationalistic socialist and he was filled with hatred but the left always seemed to have been cursed with that aspect. Lenin,Stalin,Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, The Kims, etc....and of course the ACLU who will sue away anyones right to disagree with them, and Michael Moore who ignores the deaths of millions inorder to twist a movie to his agenda, I could go on and on. But my point is the left has this perception that they are the holy cause whereas they seem to attack the holy for they have nothing left to offer.

 

andy what i think this topic needs is an outline of rightest views from a rightest person and leftest views from a leftist. getting a list of leftist views from the right or vise versa starts out with to many holes and inaccuracys.im sure that there are equal numbers of rightest moral elitest(jerry fallwel just popped in to my mind)that work on more of a personal agenda rather than the spread of truth.

also just a thought but isnt government control over abortion and same sex marriage more of a leftist idea? and isnt it the right that is fighting so hard to stop it. both are issues that should be controled the local church/ synagogue/mosque and not the federal govenment.

 

Depends on how you look at it. It was funny more than intelligent, but it was intelligent in that the name caught a lot of attention, and probably sold a few on the title alone. Beyond that, it's a true statement - which made it even more funny, if you ask me. Anyone who will say something to the effect that 'the dems are probably upset because the deathcount in New Orleans wasn't as high as they thought' is a big stupid moron - so as they say 'truth is the ultimate defense'.

You named a whole lot of bad folks that you have managed to tie (I think incorrectly) to 'leftist' ideology... but you left off so many good ones... like Mother Theresa to name but a single one in a sea of good natured leftist historical icons, but you chose to stick with your Hitler analogy. I think that's a shame. Between the two, one deserves far more attention than the other.

Then you go on to single out Michael Moore, when you have done the same thing throughout this thread, in what appears to be an unyielding attempt to tie Hitler to liberalism - which is ridiculous.

This comes from the idea that communism, at heart, is social equality. Which is not a bad idea, it just doesn't really work in any way we've worked out yet.

attack the holy? and you don't think you're trying to monstorize the perception of the left?

 

or how about McArthur?

 

haha oh yeah him too. talk about witch hunting.

 

Well, here is my right-left leaning philosophy. I believe in complete (no skimping) subsidized welfare (home, food, medical care, stipend) for those in need and meeting the criterias as established by an empathic state legislative body. On the other hand, I also believe that those who partake in said states and hard working tax paying citizens generosity should agree to be sterilized.

I consider myself a reactionary liberal

I also include the poor and unfortunate homeless in this category. Not particuarly because I have any particular inate sympathy for them, but because I don't like to step over them on the way home.

P.S. I'm not a candidate for President in 2008.

 

Sorry I missed this reply Andy. I didn't see it in the middle of your post.

Anyway, for a second there I thought you were taking about the Bush administration. For instance, if you disagree with the administration, they out your wife as a CIA agent to the press to intimidate you. Talk about a culture of silence.

If the intelligence doesn't fit the pre-determined course of action, they ignore it. They have more power than the "liberal" media, the "liberal" University system, and the ACLU put together. And speaking of civil liberties, has anyone tried harder to restrict civil liberies than the Bush administration? Be careful what you say, or write, or even read from a public library my friend.

You routinely interchange liberal with left. Left is anything left of center and I bet most folks are far, far closer to the center than they are to the extreme left. Conversely, I'd bet that the other side of center has a larger pool of members collecting at the extreme end of the spectrum that continually scream that they are being oppressed and disregarded when in reality, they are the driving force.

I feel that the religious right is crossing too far into the realm of politics and if they continue, they should be taxed like any other lobbists.

 

Unfortunately you already did "bother with me". Andy is being reasonable, concise and genuinely debating topics that seem to interest myself and others in this thread.

Somehow, I don't see Andy as your minion.