Military Suspects Captured Soldiers are Still Alive...

Why is it that liberal appeasers always assure us that deterrence and defense (waiting for islamic attacks) will work, but when the time comes to deter, they're against it??

 

Here is a little something you should read. The once proud military tradition of this country has become nothing more than a international group of thugs and you get to say that you participated in it. You must be so proud, of course you are, you don't know any better....

From different thread....

American foreign policy has almost the sole purpose of furthering our multinationals business interests. This happens again and again in country after country, decade after decade and if you have any doubt that this is happening, you simply aren't paying attention. If you accept this, and the evidence is pretty overwhelming, what might our countries foreign policy be towards governments that would for example, nationalize some or all of their countries industries? Our multinationals would stand to lose huge amounts of money they invested in those countries. The multinationals send their lobbists to Washington and give a few thousand dollars to some congress person to put pressure on this foreign government to either back off or out-and-out depose them from power. Even democratically elected governments are fair game even while we are espousing democracy around the globe. Now these small counties are at odds with the world's superpower over the local interests of their citizens. Our intelligence agencies start screwing around with their internal sovereign affairs and they react to this threat and it can escalate to the point of open war or quite covert hostilities. The only possible winner from our side is some multinational and you and I in a worst case scenario will end up serving in the military to fight for some corporation we couldn't care less for while being told that we are defending democracy. We certainly have no shortage of people willing to do that. But if you told people to go to country X and fight and die for Corporation Z, you'd probably get fewer enlistees.

Now add to this mix a Military industrial complex that looks to that same US government and sees green in supplying the latest cool weapons systems that only can increase their bottom line if the government actually uses those weapons in an actual war. A huge amount of our tax dollars are spent annually buying weapons that will either become obsolete or used in a conflict and need to be replaced at taxpayers expense. How excessive is this? We currently out spend all other counties combined on defense. How wedded to the military industrial complex is our military? Better weapons systems are being passed over because the military personnel in charge of procurement direct government spending towards corporations they will eventually hold lucrative positions with after they retire from the military.

The third prong of our foreign policy is the aid packages we give to other countries like Israel. You believe aid refers to large transfers of US cash to poor counties but in reality, much of it is in the form of obsolete US weapons, depending on who we want this particular country to be the thorn in the side of. The more weapons spread around the world the greater chance there is for war and regional conflicts to arise. What would you do if you were a country that was being assaulted by US supplied weapons? Would you love the US or would you harbor some resentment towards us?

Back home we are fed lines like service to your country, support the troops, defend freedom, spread Democracy, etc. and the reality is that while the military did once stand for those ideas and does even today to some degree, the greater honor and dignity that once define our military soldiers has morphed into a bunch of hollow, meaningless slogans designed to recruit young American kids for the US corporate assault on the rest of the world. And you think our foreign policy has nothing to do with being attacked. The innocent people who died on 9/11 didn't deserve what happened to them but there are citizens of this country that clearly deserve some type of retribution for their actions abroad.

John, I think Cloudy is smack dab on the mark when he says you don't have the intellectual capacity to fully understand the complexity of this and I have only laid out the barest of bones of the depth of this complicated relationship. You would have to read quite a bit of material with an open mind to even scratch the surface of this issue. But maybe you understand how I might view all of this pro-American without any indepth knowledge rhetoric you and others here are so fond of touting. You think you know what you are talking about because you bought the slogans as they were presented to you. I don't believe you are stupid or an idiot, you just lack the education necessary to come to an informed opinion about the real effect of our foreign policies. I'm sure this is all lost on you but maybe others will benefit from reading it or maybe not.

 

Sorry Moen...most Americans cannot comprehend how their fellow countrymen could not love their country. Your above cut-n-paste is another example of this country going to hell.

Your left's anti-Americanism is intrinsic to their entire worldview...and islamic animals love the likes of you!

Liberal appeasers promote the right of islamic fanatics for the same reason they promote the rights of criminals and Communists.

Why is it you instinctively root for anarchy against American culture and our civilization?

The inevitable logical conclusion of your liberal positions is to be for treason.

With the likes of you and your fellow appeasers who are giving up our language, borders, culture and our history...how else can you define it other than treason?

 

You know, it felt good to have served my country. I certainly was no hero but still am very proud to have worn the uniform of the United States of America for 22 years. I joined for nothing other than the fact I wanted to serve. I had a job lined up, but just took the path less traveled one day. I put $0.00 in the GI Bill and took no night classes, as I already had a degree which I've never used and never will. I was severely injured and will carry scars, memories, and screws for the rest of my days. Getting nothing out of it but a medal and a few years of hassle...

I've made lifelong friends and sadly had some perish. You have an unusual feeling when a close friend dies in an accident, knowing you rode in the same helicopter just a few days earlier. Certain parts of your body tend to tighten up...

Your words carry no weight here or in the big scheme of things. Just a part of the lunatic fringe. You're the minority here, the angry ignorant minority. Good luck in your future endeavors as I'm sure you will have difficulty as you progress thru the stages of your life to eternity in either Heaven or Hell...

 

All you can do is pray...[/QUOTE]

Maybe we need a prayer for this thread - God help us

 

Actually, it isn't a cut and paste...I wrote it in another thread. The world has changed and people find it hard to let go of old ideas. It was written to address the claim that our foreign policy had nothing to do with people like Islamists hating us. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Our country is going to hell in many ways but mostly out of ignorance and denial. You are incapable of seeing past your self-imposed shield of ignorance. That's fine with me. When you do finally realize what is happening, I'll be long gone and you'll have to suffer the consequences of your own decisions and choices. It's not like you had that much to contribute to the gene pool anyway.

 

I will show you angry...if this...and midas are the majority...I will take the minority please

I do notice that some seem to back each other up here and seem happy they are a majority on this forum, like its a contest...like a little gang and those who clump together and back each other up the most wins. So if there are four or five nutjobs calling everyone who doesnt bow to their opinions 'ignorant idiots'...If they just keep ranting until everyone else gives up, starting post after post...they win the day...oh well...I guess I lose...there is just me in my gang and I cant find the will to care enough to launch a crusade on the coin forum

What is funny about this whole thing, and why I find it hard to take any of you seriously...is how so damn sure you are that you are right, what high opinions of your own intellect you have. Midas and angry boy are so sure they have all the answers and are going to teach us all...but here they are on a little back ally of the internet...post after post telling us how stupid we are and how right and smart they are...judging people as this and that…you would think if they were so damn smart they wouldnt have to tell us on a coin forums general bickering area...you would think someone would give them a real venue...but then again...most news outlets and universities and the like would probably prefer a person who can discuss a topic without simply calling every one who disagreed with them ignorant, evil, idiot, etc...

So congrats...you have obtained a majority on the coin forum political bickering section where all of 10-15 people read

 

Thanks for the well wishes. I could speak to the ignorance I see in your perspective and your unwillingness to consider anything other than the noises in your own head, but why bother. If I love this country differently than you do and want whats best for it even if it isn't what you want, I am no less of an American than you are.

I'm sure you lost friends in the military and you feel a special bond because of your loss but that doesn't change anything that I wrote above that you so dismissively call gibberish. You were unable to argue against even one point but decided to appeal to the heart-strings of the readers of this thread rather than consider the logic of my points. I don't believe you are a bad person for serving, I just think you did what you thought was expected of you and didn't know any better. You're not the only one.

I can't fault you for being ignorant of the political forces that dominate your participation in an organization like the US military. Few that serve really understand them I'd guess. I can fault you for remaining ignorant since. If you were truely interested in educating yourself, you'd start reading up on the topic of US foreign policy but you'd have to be open to learning and I don't really see that happening. I could recommend several good books on the subject but again, what would be the point.

 

The same arguments from everyone, over and over. I need to stay on the sidelines. The past couple days of posts are making me stupider. hehe

 

Man, you're like those sidewalk doomsday nuts you see wearing a board placard over your head saying the world is going to end on both sides. Except yours says something like "Bush Will End the World" or "US Intervention in the Middle East Caused 9/11" and "Soup Not Bombs."

 

oh man...he posted a cartoon...he must be right

 

Where do you stand on the topic Dru? It's apparent you switch sides pretty often, not surprising from what I've seen since you wandered onto the scene. Sometimes I seriously wonder where your allegiances lie and that concerns me.

Moen, I know just likes drawing his Social Security Disability for mental instability and unfortunately was given a computer to bid his time away. Lots of shouting and insults but can't take what he dishes out. You on the other hand are a more sinister/complex self destructive type of personality, a very dangerous type of person. Emotionally sensitive and quick to retaliate irregardless of who you lash out at and often go over the edge so to speak. Lots of hidden anger but the ability to express it is stymied by your lack of ability.

I'd love to see your DD-214 if you even have one...

 

Here we go with that word "irregardless" again!

 

Oddly enough, I think that there are nuts on both sides. You like to ignore this fact because it makes you look as weak as you are. The Islamists are the problem on the other side, that's clear enough, and you are the problem on this side. We've had how many years of your solution and we are no better off and much worse off than when we started? I'd be willing to try anything other than the same old crap you and your buddies have been advocating and supporting the last 4 plus years. You just can't recognize your own failures but fortunately the rest of us have.

 

I think your cartoon got to him. Love the depiction of the Righties here. Spot on! I'm not the one with a medal and a disability and a government check. That would be you. Like olddan, if you don't know something, just make it up.

Adam's right, "Irregardless"?

 

Moen, odddly enough I started this thread to garner support for the troops who've been captured. That's all...

 

This must be the first time anyone in the history of CoinTalk has gone off on a tangent from the original topic. Go figure.

 

Drusus, you sure make it sound very elementary. Wouldn't it be a lot easier for you to just say "everyone has their own opinions and therefore some people will naturally side with other like-minded individuals- be it in conversation or in economic class?

Do you also NOT believe there is a RIGHT and a WRONG ? If it is universally known that white is white and one keeps calling it red, wouldn't that person be WRONG, therefore an idiot or a very ignorant person? So, when I keep hearing people on these forums saying we aren't being attacked by Fanatical Muslims day after day, post after post it is a bit aggravating to me and to A LOT of rational people. So if I get a bit angry towards them because they can't accept that we are under attack forgive me. I really appreciate my head on top of my shoulders instead of being placed on my back.

 

Since you didnt yell obscenities and insults at me I will answer you and hope this stays civil. I simply noticed how bonedigger seemed to make the point that he is a part of the majority here while moen is not or how certain people seem to tag team and back each other up. I am sure it is because they feel the same way. It just seems to me that these people see things one way, it is absolutely the right way and anyone who even dares to say anything to the contrary will be bashed and attacked by the group. Your posts seem to me, simply over the top abusive and melodramatic accusing the person of being gay, a muslim, a terrorist lover, etc...etc..this just seems like tired tactics. If you dont want any discussion, that is fine, because if I am attacked and abused because I spoke my mind, I dont want to continue the debate with a person who cannot at least TRY to counter what he see's as a problem with what I am saying in a civil manner...I just dont want to discuss something with a person who is just going to hurl insults at me whether they think (know) they are right or not...there is a difference between being right and just being a pompous jackass...Dont think my feelings are hurt because of it, it doesnt mean that much to me, but all the same if all the person is going to do is rant and insult...I have better things to do...because in the end I think you and I probably see many of the same problems...maybe we have just come to similar conclusions in different ways.

I do think there are absolute rights and wrong, terrorism, in my opinion is absolutely wrong. But then again...If the US was over run by an enemy and far overpowered me...would I think or carrying out terrorist attacks on MY enemies just to strike blows on them? probably so...so maybe if the cause is right...terrorism is a tool I would us.

By saying this...am I justifying terrorism by islamic terrorist? not at all. IT sickens me to read of a terrorist attack that takes innocent peoples lives and I never want to see a US soldier or citizen killed, I hate violence and killing. Do I think we deserve to be attacked...no...

Having said that, do I think the US is right in everything it has done in the world? No...I think the US and more importantly colonial powers of the past, have made some real serious mistakes, have done very bad things and maybe...just maybe...some of this has come back to bite us. Do I think that it is all black and white...not at all...I think there are bad people there who use their positions of power and religion to further goals that are wholly unrelated to religion. I think the Koran and religion is being used by them just as, at one time, the bible was used in the same way at times in history to justify all kinds of awful things...Yes, I think because of poverty and ignorance, maybe people over there are still living in another time, are still living in the middle ages in ideology and there are MANY reason for this, not the least of which is corrupt governments and religious leaders, poverty, and maybe...JUST MAYBE...that many of these places have been treated like possessions by the west for much of their modern history and are now striking out...

One might say they need to get over it and I agree...but if you look at the historical patterns in post colonial countries, the story is never very good...For instance Iraq has been a battle ground since the roman empire up until the british and a few british puppets finally gave way to Saddam...I dont wonder why they dont know how to govern and are still living in the dark ages, they have always been pushed and pulled, it has always been a brutal way of life there, so the people only know brutality and this is still what they see everyday.

I know you said you dont think all muslims are evil...nor do I...in fact I feel sorry for the average joes over there who would love for nothing else but to live a normal life, raise a family, educate the kids, and retire (and there are many like this). I know they exist.

I think there are a myriad of reason for why the world is the way it is and they are not as simple as the koran and evil....In fact I think the issue is so complicated that nobody has a real clear view of the whole big picture but I think it better for us to discuss things openly and rationally then to pair off into groups and bash each other as in the end, I think most reasonable people want the same thing...peace.

I do think there are people who hate america and want us dead. I even think that whether I seek to understand these issues and see both sides...it doesnt matter because there is a muslim out there who doesnt give a damn if I understand and want to help bring peace, he will chop my head off just because of my skin color and the country I was born in...I understand the dangers. I have been to the middle east many times I have seen both bad and good. It is them against us in many ways simply because as people here have begun to see them all as enemies (and maybe they always have, they are just more emboldened now), many there see all of us as enemies and trying to understand wont change that...so in the end...I will always be on the side of the US...even if I think that we have made many errors along the way because in america we have freedoms that I cherish and I would fight anyone who looks to take those away.

I do not think that we should just roll over and let them trample all over us, I was very much for Afghanistan (and thought pakistan should have been next)...I just dont think Iraq was a good thing at the time, sadly I think that it is a brutal places and maybe required a brutal leader and as long as saddam is contained...I dont care. It might seem calouss but now it is WE who have to keep the shiites and Iran at bay...I also think that we can do a lot by isolating them instead of fighting them at every turn...the US has a lot to give and gives a lot, deny them that and deny any nation that supports or refuses to take a stand against terrorism. Maybe thats not the best way..maybe its worth a try.

Anyway...I see the problem, I do not think attacks on the US are justified nor do I think that muslims havent attacked and do not wish to attack us again, I am very sure they DO want to hit us again. I will not let them terrorize me into a frenzy, I will calmly oppose and seek ways of rectifying the situation, I will not join a crusade but when it comes down to it, I am an american and I stand on the side of america.

Well, I wrote a book...but I have been thinking I just dont like this part of cointalk and I have been wanting to remove myself from the fray here. I dont like abuse and bickering, I like discussion but not crusaders out to teach everyone the right way of thinking...so I will leave it at this, I am here for the coins, I dont need bonediggers opinion on every news article of the day, I dont need to hear ad nauseum why midas thinks islam is evil, or to be constantly bashed and have people calling me evil, a terrorist sympathizer, an idiot, or even gay. I am none of these.

Take care.

 

That is all you had to say. Blame the US. Blame Bush. Blame Me. Your true colors shine through that BS you typed above. You Libs really can't help giving your colors away. You sound just like a terrorist to me. That is exactly what they say. Imagine that!

Your quotes above are contradictory. It is like you are straddling the fence. Do we deserve to be attacked for our actions OR not?


Good riddance. Osama Drusus