Prohibition of Nazi German items on Internet Auctions.

No idea why this is in "World & Ancient Coins" but if I call you a murderer or child molester, you have the option to sue me. OTOH, if anybody insults millions by claiming in public, and in written, that the nazi holocaust never happened, that is perfectly legal since those who are affected are dead? May be OK in your country, but not here.

Now you may not like German law in that regard. Fine. Just accept that it is different from the law in your country, just as I have to accept that in some non-EU countries death penalty is considered an appropriate means of punishment.

Christian

 

Good riddance why? Cause he has views you don’t like? I supposed thank God they target a family man while terrorists and murders and flowing through porous borders.

It has nothing to do with not liking laws. Someone who never ever committed a crime is being persecuted simply for his thoughts! The real criminals here are the ones running the courts!

And comparing this to the death penalty? I’d rather see a rapist or murder put to death than someone persecuted plainly for a report he wrote.

Also ironic that in the US, where free speech is supposed to be protected at all costs, has a guy targeted simply for his views (they used "immigration" as a backdoor even though he's married to a US citizen). Also, they chose a perfect time to catch him because had they waited till February 2006 the statues of limitations of his "crime" would have expired.

It is truly sick how “our” nations, which are supposed to uphold the values of democracy, are persecuting people for their views. At least third world nations that do the same thing don’t claim to do otherwise.

 

It has quite a lot to do with your dislike of things that are dealt with differently in countries other than yours. These two that you mentioned are German citizens, and what they did or do is a violation of German law, no matter whether you consider violating the law to be a crime or not. If you are a US citizen, you can spread as much nazi propaganda in your country as you want to.

Wrong. While I do appreciate that in the European Union we do not have the death penalty, I merely used it as an example of laws being different in different countries, whether you or I like it or not.

Christian

 

No it isn’t. It’s a dislike of violation of free speech and expression. Plain and simple.

And if the German government wants to violate free speech then why say they support it? The German constitution says free speech is granted. Either eliminate that phrase or eliminate all laws that conflict with it. Can’t have it both ways.

Actually the latest one is a US citizen as well.

 

I have been staying out of this for I have some strong views on the nazi coins could encourage a neo naxi but after many previous posts I understand how some coin collectors could collect the coins from a historical perspective.

However, if one does look at the terrorist actions in this nation they have been done by neo-naxi's and Islamic fundamentalists and in one infamous case linkage has suggest a working together in the FBI bombing.

 

Thank a lot Pete, we needed another one of these!

 

And what do you mean by that!

Oh sorry. I tend to agree with you.

Yes, we need another one of these!

 

Read Article 5 of that constitution again. Quite a few things in our legal system, including the federal and state constitutions, result from the country's nazi past, and how the nazis "legally" turned a democracy into a brutal dictatorship. I do not expect any other country to adopt similar laws, of course, since other countries have different historical backgrounds. But a German citizen, no matter whether s/he lives in DE or elsewhere, does know that s/he violates German law when publishing nazi propaganda.

Christian

 

The past is not the point. Either you have free speech or you oppress it.

 

Not quite #316, the point is you must follow the law, or you are in deep S---!

 

I don’t follow laws that oppress free speech, regardless where I live. In fact, one of the great things about the Internet is the fact that such laws are irrelevant (just ask the Chinese). Only 10 years ago I'm sure it was difficult to obtain Nazi imagery in Germany, but today you go on google, press print, and it's there. Even if google.de bans such things you can just click the "google.com in English" link. That's how great the Internet is! Unjust oppressive laws no longer apply.

Another good example is the DVD cracking code DeCSS A judge made it illegal but I can get it in seconds from the net. Technically I’m breaking the law. But do I care? No.

 

Something to think about:
A person who:
a) indulges in contempt of the law.
b) lacks a good sense of judgement.
c) is not prudent.
d) lacks common understanding.
e) is mentally deficient.

Is usually refered to as a Fool

 

If are for a third party (such as a government) to dictate what your beliefs should be, then it’s not I who is the fool. Freedom of thought is the highest form of a God given right that no one has the right to take away (and first and foremost, not a government).

 

The reason why this or that article is in a constitution may very well be past experiences. What the "parents" of the German federal constitution, written in 1949, did not want was a system like the Weimar Republic that gave the enemies of democracy the legal instruments to destroy that democracy. This spirit can also be found in parts of the non-constitutional law. If in the US the concept of "free speech" covers insulting the families of those who survived or did not survive the Holocaust, that is your decision. Just as it is our decision whether that is OK here or not.

Christian

 

Whatever the intention was, the current system as it stands (jailing someone for a report) is in itself against democracy. It is exactly the same way in third world nations. The difference is in third world nations they’re more honest about it.

Did they insult families? Did they go up to their homes and insult them to their face? In this case this is not covered by free speech cause this is harassment (though even then years of jail time is a disproportionate punishment to the crime).

Writing a report about historical events of any sort (be it WWII, the holocaust, WWI, Julius Caesar, Roman Empire, whatever) is just that, a report. No particular “family” was mentioned in that report. Only historical events. Part of democracy is discussion historical events. Therefore it is not insulting to anyone. It just an interpretation of history (whether you like that interpretation or not).

 

Whoooo there #316, no one said you were a fool. However if you see yourself as one of the items in description, than you are making that determination. No one else.

So back off and realize that no one said "you is" or "you isn't", but only giving definitions of how these things are determined. So place your self in the right catagory.

 

Well, I guess that over here it takes a couple more years, at the very least, until the Holocaust is just some historical event ...

Christian

 

Um. I think that what might be overlooked here is that humans are predators. Hunters and killers by nature. We can not deal with total freedom. That is why organized religion was invented. That is why we have governments. That is why we have laws and rules. Total freedom brings caos. If you study the Spanish Civil War of Spain you would see what happened there when total freedom was tried in one city. Out of control Murder, rape, and robberys then Franco marched in and took over. Now if you think child porn, how to make bombs, racial hatred to incite death, is freedom and should be on the internet, then I think that it would be impossible to discuss this any further for those things to me sound like a rec room in hell.