Hamas vs Fatah

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time

"The Palestinians are beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset

"The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."

"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces

"The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz

David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"

Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return." and "The old will die and the young will forget."

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon,

"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces


"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. "We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters"

"There are some who believe that the non-Jewish population, even in a high percentage, within our borders will be more effectively under our surveillance; and there are some who believe the contrary, i.e., that it is easier to carry out surveillance over the activities of a neighbor than over those of a tenant. tend to support the latter view and have an additional argument:...the need to sustain the character of the state which will henceforth be Jewish...with a non-Jewish minority limited to 15 percent. I had already reached this fundamental position as early as 1940 [and] it is entered in my diary." Joseph Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department. From Israel: an Apartheid State by Uri Davis, p.5.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.


"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]




I am positive any quotes from Jews like these could be matched by equally awful quotes and actions from arabs...Since I am talking to a Jew who is rabidly pro-Israel and denies any wrong doing by his side I only quote these...When I am talking to a rabid pro pal and that person denies any wrong doing by the pals...I quote Palestinian wrong doing...the result is always the same...they deny...or ignore...

 

as long as they remain a perpetual minority correct? as was the plan from the beginning.

"...the need to sustain the character of the state which will henceforth be Jewish...with a non-Jewish minority limited to 15 percent. I had already reached this fundamental position as early as 1940 [and] it is entered in my diary." Joseph Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department.

 

Let me ask you a simple question Mr. Brooklyn. In which instances do you think Israel has gone too far or committed the very same crimes it accuses Muslims of committing, in other words are they justified in doing whatever it takes to own any lands in the Middle East they have some past claim to? Or can the state of Israel do no wrong in obtaining the land it believes to be it's own?

I've seen how some Palestinians blow themselves up in despiration and try to kill as many Jews as possible. I've seen the unrelenting violence and murder some of them commit in the name of Allah. I'm not interested in their side of this conflict. Their methods are the product of being placed in a position with nothing to lose but their lives and willing give even that away in the name of some 7th century cult leader.

Only a true believer can find no fault with their own position. Are you a true believer?

 

I tell ya. Let the extremeists fight it out and leave the moderates to live in peace

 

Said after a suicide bombing shattered Baraks peace initiative.

Menachem Begin, who signed a peace treaty with Egypt, suppodely spoke in a fit of anger after Terrorists Palestinian terrorist group led by Abu Nidal attempted to assassinate Israel's Ambassador to Great Britain, hurling the country into a bloody war in Lebanon where hundreds of Jewish lives were ended. It might be noted that this quote is unsubstantiated, completely.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Lebanon_War.html

Get your facts straight.

that was actually Shamir, get your facts straight. It was said in at a Jewish settlement in a speach after 2 young girls were murdered in the nearby Arab town. There is nothing wrong with this quote other than it outlines that the Jews refuse to turn over and die in the face of arab facism.

This statement was NEVER said and has been propagated by the antisemetic press.
"What is happening to the Palestinians is wrong � plain and simple. And when people say things such as "when we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle," (Raphael Eitan, chief of staff of the Israeli Defense Forces, New York Times, April 14, 1983), it proves what is happening in Palestine are atrocities ignored by the rest of the world and supported by the United States."

"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel ... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." (Rafael Eitan, chief of staff of the Israeli Defense Forces, Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot, April 13,1983, New York Times, April 14, 1983.)

Neither of these quotations appeared in The New York Times on the date cited by Ms. Sobh. They do appear on a number of anti-Israel and anti-Semitic web sites.

This was not the only column in which such statements appeared.
http://www.deanesmay.com/archives/006152.html

Whether this was ever even said or not is not even worth discussing because it simple is factually untrue.... PERIOD. The 1967 war, like every other war Israel has fought, has been about the physical exinction of the Jewish people in their homeland. Or do you propose that if Israel LOST the 1967 war that the Jews would not have been all killed. Do you really believe that 100% of Israels fighting aged eligable citizens are in Uniform service because everyone feels secure with the Islamofacists sitting on their throats and refusing to acknokledge the Jewish claims to the Jewish homeland.

I don't know what the point of quuoting this is? Ben Gurion was certainly not right about a great many things, being blinded by a secular communistic theology. Certainly if a similar sentiment was be found by any major Arab leader about the Jews, Middle East peace would have come DECADES ago.

That would be a correct stratergy for the Jewish state. With the refusal to grant Jews their right to live freely and safelty in their own homeland, you'd have to be a utter moron to have allowed the Arabs back into areas where they left after the 20 year civil war in Israel which resulted in Jewish sovernty.

All I can say is, WHO, HUH. Your not under the misimpression that Palestians are beloved in Tev Aviv in October of 1983, and that such disdain for them was not deserved.

The only source for this quote, and mind you - YOUR AND IDIOT for even suggesting that Jews think they control America, is a bunch of Anti-semitic website, David Dukes website, and 9-11 theory websites.

And even on those sites, there are several versions, each one worst than the next, and the closest that could be found to a possibly truthful rendition would be something along the lines of:



sharon.jpg (14652 bytes)

"I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it."
Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.

Kenneth Love exposes Ariel for the world class criminal he is

From: neworder
More about "Israel"


'We control America.'

> Sharon to Peres:
> Don't worry about American pressure; we control America
> Palestinian Information Centre
> Wednesday, October 3, 2001
>
> OCCUPIED JERUSALEM**An acrimonious argument
> erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly session
> last week between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon
> and his foreign Minister Shimon Peres during which
> Sharon reportedly yelled at Peres, saying "don't worry
> about American pressure, we control America."
>
> According the Israeli Hebrew radio Kol Yisrael
> Wednesday, Peres warned Sharon that refusing to
> heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire
> with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests
> and turn the US against us.
>
> At this point, a furious Sharon reportedly turned toward
> Peres, saying "every time we do something you tell me
> America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell
> you something very clear: Don't worry about American
> pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control
> America, and the Americans know it."

Clearly Sharon had a big mouth and could lose his temper. The beuaty of Israeli Democracy is that people say stupid things all the time when they're arguing because the issues are life and death, and Perez did a good job of killing a lot of innocent Jews with his 'diplomacy'.

Overall, I seriously doubt that this was ever even said.

Yeah - so. What do you think has been said in this thread for 5 days now. The Land IS JEWISH. The Arabs who have lived there illegally HAVE to committed genocide in the past, sometimes with great success and sometimes NOT, for about 700 years. Its been only the result of brute force in which the Jews has survived in their land for less than a century now as an independent Free state and as a Free People. It would be irresponsible for any Israeli military leader to feel any other way than this. Put your neck on the line if you want it to be otherwise.

 

No you don't get off that easy. Despite any official and unofficial discussions about what to do with the hostile Arab populations with the Jewish homeland, and the real discussions of including fair treatment and compensation for Arabs within the boarders of what is the Traditional Jewish homeland, and within Judea and Sumaria, the Jews have faced continual attempts at genuine gencide.

For example:
http://www.education.gov.il/children/page_56.htm

Palestinian Education: Schools for hate
Palestinian children are taught that suicide bombers should be viewed as highly admired role models*

In total contrast to the Israeli educational system, which even in these terrible times of terror and murder continues to teach Israeli children the impORTance of tolerance and humanity, the Palestinian educational system preaches hatred and presents suicide bombers as the ideal role model, urging Palestinian children to go out and murder Jews.

Palestinian Authority textbooks ask rhetorical questions such as, “Is it not clear why we must continue to fight and kill Jews and drive them off our land? We must carry out Jihad until our entire land is liberated.”

On Palestinian television broadcasts, little boys and girls can be seen passionately proclaiming, “I can see my fall, but I march on resolutely to my death.”

A young girl calls out, “I see my death and I am running toward it – it is a hero’s death,” and when she finishes, her teacher applauds her and says “Bravo, bravo!”

Groups of young children are shown marching in rows, led by their teacher, chanting, “We are the suicide squad!”

It goes without saying that this indoctrination runs completely counter to Palestinian commitments under the Oslo Agreements signed with Israel in 1993.

In that agreement, a special emphasis was placed on fostering peaceful relations between Israel and the Palestinians, and on ending Palestinian incitement against Israel in schools, the media and religious centers.

This illusion has been shattered. Incitement against Israel in the Palestinian media continues stronger than ever. The official educational system of the Palestinian Authority continues to poison the minds and souls of its students, teaching them to vehemently despise anything Israeli or Jewish.

Additionally, the mosques in the Palestinian Authority serve as hotbeds of hatred and indoctrination for the shahids, the so-called "martyrs". These mostly young men and women aged 16-24 are filled with religious fanaticism, armed with explosive belts wrapped around their bodies and sent to blow themselves up, taking as many Israeli civilians as possible – men, women and children – with them in the process. The extremist preachers in the mosques brainwash these youth to blindly believe thet they will receive their reward for this act in the next world.

One of the most horrific sights to watch is that of Palestinian families expressing their joy and satisfaction – often handing out sweets and celebrating – when they learn their children have become “suicide martyrs.” Few Palestinian families are willing to disassociate themselves from this chilling phenomenon. It should be noted that the families of the suicide bombers are generously rewarded by various extremist Islamic organizations and countries for their children’s actions.


*The following information is documented and can be viewed in full on the following four web sites and their publications:
www.imra.org.il
www.pmw.org.il
www.edume.org.il

ALSO

How about Summer Camps for Boys and Girls!



http://abbagav.blogspot.com/2005/05/new-palestinian-summer-camp-activity.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17707

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/31/HAMAS.TMP

http://www.teachkidspeace.org/slideshow.php

"It was actually the Nazis and the English who collaborated with the Arabs in the extermination of world Jewry. Haj Amin al Husseini the Mufti of Jerusalem, and former president of the Supreme Muslim Council of Palestine urged Hitler to not allow Jews to flee to Palestine, and to exterminate them instead. (Serge Trifkovic, The Sword and the Prophet)

According to German officials who knew the Mufti:

The Mufti had repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with whom he was maintaining contact, above all to Hitler, Ribbentrop, and Himmler, the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution of the Palestinian problem. .

When Haj Amin al Husseini,spoke together with Hitler on Berlin Radio in 1942, he cried out:

Kill the Jews - kill them with your hands, kill them with your teeth - this is well pleasing to Allah.

"
http://www.afsi.org/arablies.htm
http://www.rjchq.org/News.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=363
http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/co...?path=/articles/2003/08/22/1061529332230.html
http://www.wnd.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39145

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=2685 <<=== Must read
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=2405
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=2322
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=2530


From Slate Magazine:
history lesson
The roots of Arab Anti-Semitism
Radical Islam’s favorite Western tradition.
By David Greenberg
Posted Wednesday, Oct. 31, 2001, at 3:08 PM ET

Since Sept. 11, many Americans have been surprised by the prevalence and depth of anti-Semitism in the Arab world. Rumors that we recognize instantly as fabrications—such as the claim that 4,000 Jews were warned in advance about the World Trade Center attacks—are accepted unquestioningly in Arab countries. Reporters undergoing Middle East crash courses are discovering that even states at peace with Israel, such as Egypt, routinely propagate anti-Semitic propaganda of a virulence not seen in mainstream Western politics since World War II.

This anti-Semitism isn’t just the sort of everyday stereotyping or genteel snobbery or even official intolerance that’s familiar, if mostly obsolescent, in the West. No, this is the strong stuff: fantasies that Jews ritually slaughter children and oversee secret conspiracies to rule the world. What’s more, unlike, say, Noam Chomsky, most Arab anti-Semites don’t bother with the protestations about how they only oppose Israel’s Palestinian policies and don’t really hate Jews per se. In their usage, Zionist, Israeli, and Jew are pretty much interchangeable terms.

Finally, and most important, Arab anti-Semitism isn’t confined to the fringes of society. Whereas in Israel, as in other Western countries, overt bigotry is scolded, ignored, or kept out of politics, mainstream Arab culture promotes extreme anti-Semitic ideas through schools, newspapers, television, popular culture, and official ideology. It’s hardly even controversial.

Traditionally, Islam did not demonize Jews. In Muslim lore, Jews registered as only minor figures, drawing neither special hatred nor fondness. It was Christianity, in fact, whose teachings first propounded anti-Semitism. At first it was a fairly straightforward business: Jews didn’t view Christ as the messiah, and so they were denounced or oppressed. When times got bad, they were exiled or persecuted.

Over time, Christian anti-Semitism acquired a racial dimension along with its religious thrust. This had significant consequences. After all, when Jew-hating was rooted in religion, a Jew could convert to Christianity and become, as it were, fully kosher. But when states began forcing Jews to convert—or face expulsion or execution—the authenticity of the Jews’ conversions became suspect. After Christians conquered Spain from the Muslims in 1492, they forced Jews and Muslims to convert, flee, or die. Many Jews converted yet practiced their old faith secretly, leading church officials to make new rules discriminating against all so-called conversos.

In the 19th century, anti-Semitism became increasingly racialized. The Enlightenment certainly made life better for Jews, at least in Western Europe, where religious tolerance took hold. Yet the Enlightenment also brought new “scientific”—or, as we now say, pseudoscientific—notions that human beings belonged to different races, some superior to others. Under these notions, Jews (as well as Africans, Arabs, and others) were deemed to be biologically and thus immutably inferior to white or “Aryan” Europeans.

Alongside racism, 19th-century Europe also saw the spread of nationalism: the idea that every people deserved its own state. Nationalism served to justify the repression of “alien” peoples, especially Jews—not just in eastern Europe, where Jews lived in ghettos, insulated from their Polish or Russian compatriots, but even in Western Europe, where many Jews were assimilated and considered themselves full citizens of their countries. This new form of ideological anti-Semitism—seeing the Jews as an alien and inferior people amid Christian European nations—finally got its name in 1879, thanks to an Austrian journalist named Wilhelm Marr.

By this point, the ideology of anti-Semitism had bred elaborate theories about the Jewish people’s evil. In some cases, ancient religious bigotries were updated, as in the “blood libel” that Jews killed Christian children to use their blood in making Passover matzot. (In Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ukraine, and elsewhere, Jews were actually tried in court on such charges.) In other cases, the slanders were new, as with the publication of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a document fabricated by Russian secret police that purported to divulge the Jews’ conspiratorial plans for world domination.

Until the late 19th century, anti-Semitism as an ideology remained largely absent from Arab and Muslim culture. In the Quran and in Islamic commentary, Jews are significant not for rejecting Muhammad but for succumbing to his followers. In Arab literature, they are sometimes portrayed as hostile or vindictive, but their humility and weakness is a much more common theme. Islamic governments did not often persecute Jews either, the way European states did, and when Jews faced discrimination, it was no different from what Christians endured. Unlike in Europe, Jews in Islamic lands were not expelled or forced to convert or, with a few exceptions, consigned to ghettos.

That all started to change around 1900. First, colonialism brought a growing European influence into the region, and both political and religious authorities from Europe promoted the idea that Jews engaged in ritual murders. Second, traditional Islamic authority was under challenge from Western liberalism, and the Jews provided a convenient scapegoat. During the 1908 Turkish revolution, the so-called Young Turks seized power in the Ottoman Empire and installed a constitutional regime that expanded freedom of religion. In arguing against the revolution, Muslim conservatives latched onto anti-Semitic propaganda, claiming that secret Jewish machinations lay behind the new regime.

Finally, there was Zionism. Starting in the mid-1800s, Jews turned to Zionism—their own nationalism—as a solution to escalating European persecution. Since biblical times, Jews had maintained a small presence in the ancient kingdom of Judea (which in the late 19th century Europeans began calling Palestine), and Zionists saw the land as the ideal refuge for them, a Jewish National Home.

Zionist immigration began in earnest in the 1880s, and soon Jewish settlers ran into conflicts with local Arabs. At first, however, the friction centered on grazing rights, land titles, and other property matters; it didn’t carry nationalist or religious overtones. Yet as crude anti-Semitic ideas circulated more widely, the view of Jews as greedy, devious, and bent on world domination became bound up with the Arab critique of Zionism. Possibly the first major expression of the now-common view that Jewish settlement was really a beachhead for a takeover of the region was published in 1909 by the Turkish journalist Yunus Nadi, who warned—without any evidence at all—that the Jews aimed to establish “an Israelite kingdom comprising the ancient states of Babel and Nineveh, with Jerusalem at its center.” The conspiratorial notion of the Jews as plotting to take over the world quickly developed.

Then came the Holocaust, which not only marked the pinnacle of European anti-Semitism but encouraged it in the Arab world as well. Because Arab leaders shared the Germans’ hostility to Britain and France—the dominant colonial powers in the Middle East—they were eager to make common cause with Hitler, despite Nazi belief that they, like the Jews, were inferior to Aryans. The mufti of Jerusalem, among others, actively spread propaganda about “Anglo-Saxon Jewish greed” while praising the Nazi war effort. Even years later, sympathy for Nazism could be easily found in Arab culture. When Israel apprehended Adolf Eichmann in 1960, a Saudi newspaper headline read, “Capture of Eichmann, Who Had the Honor of Killing Five Million Jews.”

If the Holocaust nurtured Arab anti-Semitism, it also helped to discredit such bigotry in the West. Indeed, it helped mobilize support for a Jewish state internationally. In 1948, Israel was finally granted independence. As if to welcome their new neighbor into the region, the Arab countries promptly invaded. Israel repulsed the attacks, and in the three Arab-Israeli wars that followed (1956, 1967, 1973), the Jewish state managed to survive and even to expand its territory. Most controversially, it took over the Gaza Strip from Egypt and the West Bank from Jordan, which were home to large numbers of Palestinian Arabs.

With Israel’s military successes and its willingness to occupy Arab lands until a peace treaty could be struck, Arab anti-Semitism hardened into official doctrine, as it has remained for many decades now. Propagandists, looking to rationalize their losses to a supposedly inferior people, came to depict the Jews as craven lackeys of a mightier power—the United States—a theme that can be heard in Osama Bin Laden’s rhetoric today. And it was not just propaganda: Arab countries passed laws that discriminate not against Israelis or Zionists but against all Jews, simply for being Jews.

Islamic teaching, too, has been radically retrofitted to accommodate the new anti-Semitism. Whereas traditional Muslim accounts depict the fate of the Jews as tragic, that of a people too benighted to follow Muhammad the Prophet, current Muslim scholarship in the Arab world imaginatively rereads the Quran for evidence of the Jews’ devilish nature. Meanwhile, films showing sympathy for the Jews or depicting the Holocaust are censored, while staples of old-fashioned European anti-Semitism—cartoons portraying greedy hook-nosed Jews, popular novels with conspiratorial Jewish villains, public lectures drawing on phony scholarship like the Protocols—became staples of the new Arab culture.

What Americans have been seeing after Sept. 11, we have to conclude, is hardly new. It’s only new to those who never before bothered to look.

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Nationalistic anti-Semitism found its most famous expression in France’s Dreyfus Affair. In 1894, Alfred Dreyfus, a French army captain who was Jewish, was convicted of spying for Germany and sentenced to life in prison. Dreyfus fought the conviction and eventually, in 1906, was exonerated. But in the intervening years, the question of Dreyfus’ guilt split French opinion, and the so-called “anti-Dreyfusards” marshaled anti-Semitic arguments on their behalf, shocking the liberal Dreyfusards. The raw anti-Semitism voiced by Frenchmen, including intellectuals, clergymen, and state officials, made the Jews of France question whether they could feel at home even in what was supposedly the most enlightened of nations. The Dreyfus Affair also helped foster Arab anti-Semitism, because French culture exerted a strong influence on Christian Arabs in Lebanon.

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Out of such pseudoscience sprang the notion that there exists some group of peoples, including Arabs and Jews, who are all “Semites.” The idea has no historical or biological basis; it’s purely a cultural construction. The notion, advanced in recent years by foes of the Jews that they cannot be anti-Semitic because they support the Arabs, who are also Semites, is thus doubly absurd: First, the notion of a “Semite” is itself a racist invention of 19th-century Europe. Second, the term anti-Semitism has been used overwhelmingly in the sense that Wilhelm Marr coined it in 1879, to apply only to the Jews. At any rate, it is preposterous to argue that hating Jews, even when accompanied by a fondness for Arabs, is anything less than racist.


Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2057949/

Copyright 2006 Washingtonpost.Newsweek Interactive Co. LLC

The discussion and question about what to do with an Arab minority in the midst of a Jewish state after 700 hundred years of rampant genocidal murder was a fair question posed by a number of the quotes above. Your Pro-Palestinian pals need to first FESS UP that the Jews are not invaders, but the legitiamate and rightful heirs to the Land of Israel which the Arabs have illegally occupied for about 6 centuries to varrying degrees (and I say varrying degrees ebcause when they're a few Jws in the country, it tends to be ignored and impovished and only when Jewish Populations grew do Arab populations also grow anddoes the the area become a political concern for Arabs).

 

I think that there are far too many true believers on both side of this idiocy which was the main point of my earlier post. Why would any sane society want to defend either of these lunatics? All they know is their entrenched dogma and hate. They both claim to be people of God but I see very little of God in any of their actions.

You can post quote after quote by any number of participants in this insane tit-for-tat killing. What I don't understand is why is it so important to carry on this non-sense for the sake of some piece of dirt that is probably more blood than soil at this point? Why would you condemn future generations of your own descendants to the madness that has persisted for centuries? This has to be the definition of insane devotion to territory. :goofer:

I guess some folks just need something to die for...good luck to both sides and happy hunting!

 

My name is Ruben not Mr Brooklyn. Mr Brooklyn is not even my handle, it is MRBRKLYN.
You should get it right. But to answer your question, If Jews did things like this to their children



Or something like this would be too much - this is an Arab dressed as a Jew in a "play" at summer camp

 

Frist of all its not dirt, its the Jewish Homeland. that homeland is the cultural context of our entire culture including all our sacred sights, graves of our Kings, and Saints, and Judeism and Jewish culture, while unversal in its message, in its pracitice makes only complete sense in that land. Did you ever try to Grow Esrogim in Milkuakee? When you discuss Chanuka, it can be better understood when you are standing in the Judean Hills where Judua Macabee stood. In Israel, the land goes into a sabatical year every 7 years. In Isreal Lag B'Omer happens in the shadow of Mt Carmel. In Isreal you can see the terreced land that my ancestors carved from the hillsides. Every facet of Jewish living has more depth.

But not only that, without being secure and FREE in our homeland, we die in the millions.

Israel as a nation is as old as China and India. Yet we have only about 11 million souls. Think about our losses in every generation. If your going to be slaughtered for being a Jew, then you might as well be slaughtered for being a Jew in your homeland and defending your people.

Ruben

 

And your point being?

 

I will take a stand and say Israel must continue as a Jewish homeland. But that being said I do side with the liberal side (Labor party) in Israeli politics. I think the Israeli hardliners are the greatest danger to a Jewish homeland in Israel. Unfortunately there are hardliners in Israel who think all Muslims are cockroaches and as long as they hold that view there will be war.

I am not Jewish and I am not an expert on this but that is my opinion

 

your fanaticism makes my point for me...

 

You can elevate a piece of dirt to any status you wish. You can call it holy, you can attach sentimental stories to it, you can pray to it, you can worship it, you can die for it. I think of people with your attitude as victims of your own heritage. You have been raised to believe what your ancestors have told you and feel the same emotional attachments they feel without ever having had the experience of living and dying on the soil you so unnaturally cling to.

If the world community had an iota of sense in it's bad addled brain it would shovel the entire area of Israel and Palistine into rusty buckets put them on a garbage scow take it out to the deepest part of the ocean and kick each bucket overboard. Then rope off the hole and fill it in with styrofoam. Anyone left crazy enough to worship that would be automatically committed to a mental institution.

It doesn't seen to me that living in the place you unappologetically call your homeland has kept Jews from being killed anyway. Jews have been persecuted for as long as persecution has existed. Not just in the Middle East but all over Europe, Asia, Africa and just about anywhere else you can think of. I still don't why this happens but it certainly does. If I were you, I'd ask myself why, since it is likely to affect you more than myself. I would have to know why people hated me if it were happening to me. It is sort of the elephant in the room that never gets talked about. Maybe you could help me out with this question.

Again, why is this happening? What are the underlying reasons for the hatred? What have you been told?

 

I address most people by their User ID or some variation of it because that is how they have identified themselves. You can call me Mr. 1305 for all I care. Jews do indoctrinate their children against Muslims. It's just more subtle. American children play cowboys and Indians. Guess who the bad guys are? Children learn from their parents. So do both groups of children in this conflict. We are all products of our parents so please remember that when you hear a elder disparage a Muslim or when you disparage a Muslim to your own children. You are just passing the hate along to the next generation.

Powerful images if you already have their context in your mind of Muslims hating Jews from birth. I see children playing as children do in a very violent environment. I'm not trying to defend them but they are victims of their parents culture as are Jews. No difference to me really.

 

Without Israel this world would be a different place, a much darker and dangerous place. Perhaps the religion you believe in would be forbidden and forgotten. Your words are directed to someone who could never provide the answers you seek. Why not ask, why the Cult of Islam must expand violently to all points on the globe. Why must the Hezbollah, Hamas, and Fatah constantly kidnap the Israeli's who watch the border between the two territories. Remember the recent settlement closures? Israel has given back land till it hurts, but it's still a sovereign nation.

Here are a few more topical questions, Why would an individual or several individuals (Muslim) who are not familiar with local customs, who have a ton of money and no bank account suddenly appear near or in the Port of Galveston, Texas? Does the Showtime program "Sleeper-Cell" come to mind?

Who or what lobby was behind the (almost) sale of the security contract of US ports to the United Arab Emirates instead of Israel or another country. (Must admit I would sleep better at night with Israel on the job...)

Why there are no cases of Rabbi's disrupting the air travel of American citizens with ridiculous schemes or why El Al is the safest airline in the world.

You know what, It bothers me too that you would call Israel a patch of dirt and I'm just a Methodist... I also would say that your comments DON'T apply to the majority of Americans when asked if they believe that Israel is considered the Holy Land.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...ns consider israel the holy land?&btnG=Search

 

Without Israel I think this world would have been a much safer place as it seems to me the focus of so much animosity towards US because of our support for them. The continued fighting and our support of one side over the other has only increased a section of the Muslims animosity towards us. I think without our billions in support every year we wouldnt see near as much hate for the west...probably less terrorism (which came about as and action against israeli oppression) and maybe there would be progress in diplomatic relations...so yes...I agree...this world would probably be a far different place these days without this constant source of bad blood.

And I dont know anyone who thinks Israel is the holy land...it is just another patch of land like any other in this world and the so-called holy places are not my holy places or anyone I know...This is just one of many reasons why religious fanaticism is harmful to the world. Dont get me wrong, israel is there now and both side will have to learn to live with each other, tere is no turning the clock back...homeland I can see...holy land...I couldnt care less...let them pay for their holy war out of their own pockets...not my taxes...

 

Let's see, without Israel, terrorists could focus their efforts to kill the infidels solely on the United States. Instead of having constant rocket attacks on Ashkelon or Tel Aviv, we might have daily rockets attacks on Atlanta or Seattle. And let's face it, the U.S. military can handle terrorist attacks with nowhere near the efficiency of the IDF.
Next, if Israel were to be disbanded, where exactly do you think the 7 million Jews in Israel would live? Who cares, since they create so many problems for the U.S., how about we just banish them from their own homeland dating back to biblical times? NO.

Out of curiosity, where do you live? In a hole by yourself? The Old Testament refers to Israel as the Holy Land, the New Testament refers to Israel as the Holy Land, even the Q'uran refers to Israel as the Holy Land. That accounts for the world's three major religions that developed in the Middle East, and you must know at least a few Christians, Jews, or Muslims that believe what their holy book says.

Whatever the case, the Jews and the Muslims will fight each other until only one group is eliminated, and Israel has a better military than every Muslim country combined.

 

Or they wouldnt try to kill the infidels near as much since we are not supporting an occupation that kills them, keeps them low, drives them out, etc....why do you think they hate america so much? #1 reason is our support of israel to the tune of 4 billion a year...I certainly dont think there would be rocket attacks on the US all the time, they can barely send rockets next door to them...Israel is the #1 bone of contention...its creation set off these situations...formerly it was the wests occupation, formerly it was the crusades in which the west constantly looked to take these lands...one common theme here...the so called 'holy land'. I call it a foolish crusade and religious fanatics that will see us all destroyed. Its odd to see people who are so black and white, see only one side and not the other as humans.

I dont give a damn who THINKS this is the holy land...where do I live? I live around people who dont concern themselves with the so called holy land...they are christians, jews and muslims who dont feel compelled to kill for god and instead look to accomplish a daunting task, talking sense into fanatics.

Israel has a better military because of Hundreds of billions of our tax dollars being dumped there...which is the root reason why we have radical islam looking to kill us...

I am not saying remove israel...if you had read what I posted instead of knee-jerk reaction you would have read that BOTH the arabs and jews are the problem as they BOTH refuse to live with each other...the situation is as it is, israel is not going anywhere, nor are the muslims...they need to come to terms for good and stop killing each other over so called holy places...my god doesnt want killing and death in his name, maybe yours does...sounds like you would be okay with genocide just like the evil muslims you hate so much and see as villians. If it were me I would destroy every so called holy place and break it all into pebbles...but the morons would fight over the pebbles. I call it fanatical religious nuts on both sides...thats all...and I pray to god you dont take the rest of us with you in your road to mutual destruction.

 

Let's not forget this, like many things which Islam says never happened!

You were credible until this last paragraph. I'm sure you don't have to be beaten over the head to understand that Canaan was given to the Jewish people by God. "God told Abraham that he would lead a nation if he left his homeland and travelled to Canaan, now known as Israel."
http://www.cre.gov.uk/diversity/religionguides/judaism.html

Now this took place about 2600 years before Mohameed quite a work himself. While he had the sexual strenght of 30 men (Vol. 1:268) he had no sense of caution and certainly no protection. It is said lost his mind and died of syphilis. I wonder if he gave the disease to Aisha, his six year old wife....

His words were those of a madman for those who've read the Koran. Something like "Whosoever ate this plant (garlic) should not enter the mosque." (Vol. 1:812) and "The effect of an evil eye is a fact. (Vol. 7:636) LMAO...

 

With all due respect, nobody could tell you what the world would be like without Israel's existence. That's just a silly statement. You could speculate that the Muslim countries would have no gripe with the West if Israel didn't exist. You could also speculate that the Muslim world would be just as impoverished and backwards as it is today because so few among them hold any real power. You could speculate that the Muslims would fucus on the Hindus of India and Pakistan would be the new Israel.

Trying to apply our current reality of Middle Eastern problems to an imagined reality in the Middle East is a waste of time and conversation. You might as well compare contemporary reality with Harry Potter.

Maybe because of the Jew's and the Muslim's adherence to tribal rituals and ancient methods and practices, they are incapable of living in the more enlightened world of today. Maybe they each find this new reality threatening and incompatible with their various beliefs and traditions. Maybe they are destined to finally go the way of the dinosaur. Now that is something to speculate about.