Abortion Smoothie

Spot on TJ

 

Crime is not genetic! Good Grief!

 

I really do see your point. And I've fought with it myself. But to allow an abortion for the reasons that you've specified, would open up that doors to hundreds of other reasons. Then we're right back where we started.

 

Idk... Look at the Kennedys...

 

LOL..No it's how and were you were brought up.

 

So you would be in favour of a law forcing women to gestate to full term, where the father of the child had tortured, raped and almost killed the woman?

A simple yes or no would be fine BM

 

So you subscribe to Nurture vs. Nature. Interesting. Personally, I feel that it might be a little bit of both.

 

Have you read the thread? Many of your "facts" (and I use the term loosely in regards to you) have already been addressed or shown. It's nice that you want to participate in this heated topic, but it's probably a good idea to get caught up first...

Did you read the verse you posted? How it said that God spoke? How the words that came from God were inside the quotation marks? Do you remember saying this:

If you are going to throw the word of God around to try to use it as a weapon in such a way, then it immediately acknowledges- for the purpose of this discussion- that He exists. Based on that, your quote is God speaking, and it being recorded as such.

That is exactly what I am suggesting, and have said flat out many times in here. Again, thanks for participating, but getting yourself caught up first is a great idea.

Your fact quotient is rather low. You are full of talk, but unfortunately don't seem to have a lot to back it up with. Your low-brow attacks are getting, and are no replacement for decent discussion. (theme song from Jeopardy? Come on...)

carry on as you see fit. I see this topic moving from a decent discussion into more of a flame thread, and I want no part of that. I hope I am wrong.

 

Yes. It's either all or nothing I'm afraid.

 

Some of it is genetic snaf, lots of conditions criminal and othrwise are genetic.

You and I have sex chromosomes of XY

Did you know that 40% of male prison inmates are XYY ? I'm not sure what the name of the condition is, but those with it are certainly criminals, and it is certainly a genetic condition

 

Did you ever see Trading Places? I think it brings the idea home. And it was a funny movie.

 

Sometimes it is very difficult to do what needs to be done, so much so that some sit on the fence unable to climb down. It is also sometimes difficult to have an opinion which contradicts your main belief.

I refuse to be intimidated by the dilemma.

I have said what I believe to be right. I believe you have said what is a convenience to you. I also think you know way down that your opinion is wrong.

 

You believe that my opinion is wrong, I believe yours is wrong. Let's not make this personal.

I think it takes more to stand up for your belief (especially one that is not popular) than it does to bend to another's whims.

Allowing certain exceptions in the abortion issue is opening a new area of attack in your plan.

Allowing abortion for certain cases, is bending. It's opening a hole in your argument against abortion.

It is simply, illogical.

 

I don't think your being fair on this Sheik.


His opinion is just as valid as yours, no point being nasty about it.


I agree with his stand on a personal basis and would never abort a child for any reason or have anything to do with a woman who would.


But, where I differ with him is on a possition with society in general. I do not believe it is right to forse my religious moral stand on others, but I do feel requiring people to take responsibility for their actions is reasonable.


If no responsibility (rape) then no obligation to keep the child. Sure, I wish life could have a chance because this life is innocent, but based on responsibility, I find the mother not to blame for the condition.



I wouls like to add that I find your idea that a rapists child must become a rapist himself fairly shocking. I do not subscribe to any child being anything from birth or even from environment. I have seen children raised in great homes be killers and children raised in the ghetto with prison dads grow up to be great human beings.

How can you prelabel a child into being a criminal like a rapist?

 

Yeah it's how you were raised. Has nothing to do with genetics. The gene argument if it's real would be an anomaly

 

I think that both sides have an argument. There are some genetic factors that could cause someone to be more predisposed to criminal acts.

The person could be genetically more aggressive, or genetically have less fear response.

These things, mixed with the right home life (or lack there of), and you've got a recipe for bad guy.

Instead of Nature vs. Nurture... It should be Nature + Nurture.

 

It all sounds good but I still do not buy it.


My oldest son's best friend is mixed, half white, half black. His father has been in prison his entire life for murder. His step-dad is racist and calls him half breed and even the "N" word sometimes. (I have been close to beating his behind a couple times for this) You would look at his situation and based on what is being said here, he should be doomed to being a criminal.


But this kid has a very soft heart. He has come to my house crying about things his step-dad has said to him and we have had long talks about life and society where I can tell you he will be a great man. Aborting this child under the idea that he is doomed to be a criminal or worse would have been a great injustice.



I think I have posted this before but I will post it again, I am not sure where I got this but it has been with me for most of my life:


"A person is a collection of their lifetime experiences and how he dealt with them."

 

We never said that God, whatever that term means to each individual, didn't exist. You're projecting assumptions.

Yes, a miscarriage could be interpreted that way, but that doesn't give you, or anyone else, the right to assume to know what God wants in each INDIVIDUAL case. Try not to put the cart before the horse.

Good, then this is your lucky day, as there is a very simple solution for it. You simply need to educate yourself what birth control is, and isn't. We won't assume that the reader has any knowledge of what birth control is, so we'll start with the basics. Consider it a refresher course for the rest of us.

birth control: noun: |b?rth k?n?tr?l| contraceptive devices or preparations.

contraception : noun: |?k?ntr??sep sh ?n| 1.*prevention of fertilization 2.*means of preventing pregnancy.


Birth control happens before the pregnancy can occur, not afterward! Once implantation occurs, the woman is already pregnant, and birth control would have no effect. Abstinence, Condoms, Oral Contraceptives, The Mini-Pill, Copper T IUD, Progestasert IUD, Ortho Evra, Sterilization... these are all forms of birth control. They all work BEFORE pregnancy, not afterward.

The definition of an abortion is to terminate a pregnancy (after fertilization has already occurred) where the death of the fetus results.

Think of it like this. There is a scale. The middle of the scale (or its pivot if you will) is the word pregnancy. On one side is the word contraception/birth control. On the other is the word abortion. One happens BEFORE pregnancy, and one happens after pregnancy.



Abortion does not (and cannot) happen before pregnancy, nor can abortion prevent pregnancy, it can only terminate an already pregnant woman. Hence it cannot and will not ever be a form of contraception or birth control. Only someone really, really ignorant , or someone who repudiates established medical facts would think so.

Very good point. There are indeed genetic factors that come into play, just the same as there are genetic factors that makes a person religious. Oops... betcha didn't see that one coming

 

Don't be petty. We're not talking semantics here. You understand what he means, unless you're a complete dolt.

But just in case They're using abortion to prevent birth, just as one would use contraceptives or birth control. Alas, the reference to abortion being a form of birth control


In fact your entire argument is based on a fallacy. Your argument is based on the fact that contraceptives or birth control only have effect if they prevent pregnancy. This is not the case. The term Birth Control seems to speak to the fact that it controls birth, not pregnancy. The concept being that if you prevent conception (getting pregnant) you prevent birth. That is true, but abortion seems to be another method of BIRTH CONTROL. Think about that for a minute before you respond.

 

Wrong again Tonto..

Lets try to educate you.

We're talking about RU486. It's called the morining after pill and they call it birth control. Hmmm...

RU486 The Abortion Pill



Women will take this drug on a asumption that they might be pregnant.