I feel so much better now

Well that's a relief. Anyone in the world can now be accused of terrorism by Presidential fiat and be summarily executed without any sort of trial at all, or be tried in a civil court or be handed over to the military for trial and/or indefinite detention all at the President's pleasure.

BUT Obama promises that American citiizens woun't be affected by this. This better than nothing and they are constantly reminding us that better than nothing is the best we can expect and we should be grateful for it. But of course there is nothing to stop him from changing his mind. Nor is there anything to stop a future president not similarly disposed to use these powers against anyone citizen or not. Could we please have King George iii back?

That this bill was signed by a Democrat, with the support of Democrats in Congress (Republican suport goes without saying) , simply reinforces my view that there isn't enough difference between the two parties to really see them as two parties. In this as an in other areas the Obama administration is in most respects little more than a continuation of the Bush administration. Has he done some good things that Bush probably wouldn't have done? Clearly he has. But the fact remains that the general direction hasn't changed. The erosion of our civil liberties was well underway by the time Bush left office and Obama has continued to move it forward. So actually, I don't feel better at all.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/...empt-americans-from-indefinite-detention-law/

 

Ron Paul called the signing of the bill into law a "descent into totalitarianism". That's a good description.

Is this really the hope and change the country sought in 2008? Obama has got to go!

With the stroke of a pen today, Obama has completely run our Constitution into the ground. Nixon signed the Non-Detention Act into law in 1971 to make sure no one would ever be treated like Roosevelt treated the Japanese in America in WWII. Today, Obama completely wiped that out.

This bill sailed through the Democratically-controlled Senate. Ask yourselves if Democrats really have your best interests at heart.

Obama should hang his head in shame!

 

The phrase "The (deleted)s can try!" comes to mind regarding this law. If they think they can detain anyone they want and start using this as a legal tool to quash protests and other activities... then they're just asking for open revolt. Push people too far and sooner or later someone's gloves are gonna come off. Then it'd be fair to say the time for an attitude change in how (deleted) gets done in America has arrived. Personally, I'm done with this BS... they wanna act like children... children who have massive amounts of political power and are (deleted)-up America... maybe it's time for an (deleted) whoopin'.

 

You don't think the Republicans supported this thing overwhelmingly? Please.

 

I know. Back when we were a minor political entity clinging to the eastern seaboard of a vast continent with enemies everywhere we crafted a Constitution and a bill of rights that gave us the freedoms we are now in the process of throwing away because we are cowed and afraid. Our situation then was a thousand times more precarious than it is now yet now we are giving up everything in a vain attempt to feel safe. The Republican party is chiefly to blame for starting us on this road, and now that the Democrats have merged with them we are essentially a one-party state dedicated to control, oppression, and fear. A nation of exploited and manipulated cowards.

 

We follow along like sheep, where the herder prods us along. I'm the sheep that stares back at the herder and says "Try it (deleted), I will (deleted) you up." Yeah, the herder might kill me, but even then I'd intend to make the (deleted) choke as he eats me.

 

You don't think the Democrats supported this thing overwhelmingly? Please. The ratio of Democrat Senators voting "Yes" was more than the ratio of Republicans voting "Yes". In fact, the ratio is thus:

DEM REP
48:3 44:3

In the House, it's somewhat different (Representatives voting "Yes" to the ratio of "Nay" votes):

DEM REP
93:93 190:43

Now, if you want to compare a 50/50 split to a 75/25 split and call it an overwhelming majority ratio, well be my guest. It just isn't THAT much different compared to the Democrat vote. Not when you take into account that 419 votes were cast and only 93 were Democrat "Nay" votes. If the Democrats had your best interests it heart, the vote should have been 186 instead of 93. So, what does that tell you? Vote Democrat in 2012 where you have that many Democrats who would pass a bill like this, a higher ratio of Democrat Senators than Republicans would vote for a bill like this and a Democrat president would sign it into law? Not just "please, but "puh-leeeeeeeze". Let's take a break from all this hypocrisy of calling the other party names when all one has to do is look in a mirror and see the same thing.

It sickens me that our government would allow a bill like this to pass. I'm upset with the Republicans for voting for it and I'm upset with the Democrats for voting for it. Some of the left-leaning partisan members on this forum are so quick to demean Republicans, but just take a look at the Democrat Party!! Really, take a close look!!!!

The Democrats voted for this one, folks and there's no sugar-coating it. This is a bad, bad, BAD bill and it could have been stopped. If the buck truly stops at Obama's desk, I lay the blame for this piece of garbage squarely on his shoulders.

If there was even an iota of a chance that someone could have convinced me to vote for Obama this year, that chance completely vaporized when he signed this bill into law. This bill is one of the most un-American pieces of legislation to ever cross a president's desk. Un-be-liev-able!

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2011-218
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2011-932

 

I think I have made it clear here and elsewhere that I don't cut the Democratic faction of the national party much if any slack on this sort of stuff. Did you actually read the OP? And does the fact that this passed under Obama's reign in any way excuse those Republicans who supported it or those who got the ball rolling on the whole fear, terror, and (the illusion of) safety at any price campaign back in the days of the Bush administration? I know that you are convinced that Obama can do no right. Are you equally convinced that the Republican faction can do no wrong?

 

You've made a couple of false assumptions. I wasn't disputing the OP, I was merely venting and adding my opinion to the mix. Secondly, you assume that I'm "convinced that Obama can do no right". That's where you're wrong. Had Obama vetoed this bill, I would have applauded him. Third, you're incorrect in assuming that I don't also hold Republicans accountable for this disaster. I do. But, I'm also pointing out that Democrats are as responsible for it (in fact, MORE SO in the Senate since the Yay/Nay ratio was higher there). It's simply disingenuous for people to hold Republicans responsible for legislation like this simply based on preconceived notions. Democrats are at fault in a big way for the shape this country is in. For those who like to go around denigrating Republicans, well, just look in the mirror.

 

Well I

Well I suppose we pretty much agree up to a point. After 8 years of Bush et all and three years of Obama and the boys we are in pretty sad shape. Where we differ is that you seem to be under the impression that the Republican faction of the National Corporatist Party is somehow better than the Democratic branch.

 

Yes, you do.

 

I believe the "we" included you as well. Bless your little heart.

 

You certainly have the right to be wrong...and you exercise it well.

 

Well boy's and girls time to kiss your freedom good by and share the blame equally amongst both parties

 

But the Republican faction can do no wrong. At least that's the idea you get from its defenders on this board.

 

They can (have & will) do a lot of wrong but battling BO's failed policies is vitally important

 

What have they done wrong?

 

http://www.prisonplanet.com/obamas-...ntion-bill-a-historic-tragedy-for-rights.html

 

Liberals breed compassion, tolerance, reason and understanding. Just like, who was it? Oh yeah, Jesus Christ said. Conservatives breed fear, separation, hatred.

 

Whoa! Have you been reading books by Cass Sunstein, Bill Ayers or Bernadette Doran? Please don't tell us that you're another blind liberal...