Maybe it takes more than looking like a TV president to be one?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Moen1305, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. IQless1
    Blah

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum








     
  2. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    I am still waiting for your definition of flip-flopping!
    quote="rlm's cents, post: 76644"]Man, you can sure twist things, can't you. Now you are saying BO did not say what he was televised and recorded saying. BO exact words "I have said repeatedly that I intend to close Guantanamo and I will follow through on that". Which word did you not understand, close or Guantanamo?

    "You call that flip-flopping. I don't." He used to say "I intend to close Guantanam" and he said that more than once and he "Now he says Gitmo is vital to our national security" (your words). I would appreciate YOUR definition of "flip-flopping" that can remotely exclude that as "flip-flopping".[/quote]
     
  3. IQless1
    Blah

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum

    Th original post is about Romney's continuing opinion changes, in order to gain political support. That factor has long been considered the definition of flip-flopping, the intentional change of an opinion in order to gain support, whether the new position reflects the person's true beliefs or not. The response you and others made is that Obama flip-flopped on Gitmo. Nowhere is it stated that Obama intentionally changed his opinion on it in order to receive support from a specific group of people. His stance on the issue has remained true to his original convictions, his desire for the camps to close hasn't changed, and he's said so repeatedly.

    There simply is no reasonable comparison between the the two that sustantiates your accusation.
     
  4. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    Interesting definition. However, here are the usual definitions;
    http://www.answers.com/topic/flip-flop

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Flip-flop

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flip-flop

    Would you care to give me just one reference showing your definition outside of your opinion? Just one will do.
     
  5. eric.cornelison

    eric.cornelison New Member

    I just don't understand how people know other people have stopped looking for jobs. I don't think it will matter what I say, you will say something opposite. The facts are clear to me. The economy was in a free fall and on the brink of collapse and Obama stopped it. Now do I agree with everything he did, no, but I have to admit, the economy is getting better, even if it is slowly getting better it is getting better.

    You can say that the administration spins everything and then give another example, but I am just going by what I read and what I hear. I watch these things pretty closely and I really expect the unemployment to go up after the holidays, will that the people that weren't looking for work, like you have said, have started looking for work again? I don't think so, it will be because all the workers hired for temporary holiday jobs were laid off or lost their jobs. But I am sure that you will blame the administration on that, I could almost bet money.
     
  6. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    The data comes from the field- u/e offices & u/e claims.
     
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  7. eric.cornelison

    eric.cornelison New Member

    I understand what people are saying and I have heard these statistics before, but how to they know? Is it a reporting system or what? Unemployment is known because of the number of people that are on it. I am sure some people have ran out of the unemployment benefits and go off the unemployment rating, or at least I assume they do. How does someone keep a statistic on who quite looking for work? I am being honest here. I just don't know.
     
  8. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    Here are a couple references for you. The most telling for me is that our population rose 1,726,000, but our labor force FELL by 67,000. How else can you possibly explain that?

    http://www.registerguard.com/web/opinion/27264572-47/unemployment-news-month-percent-rate.html.csp
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-jobless-rate-falls-to-86120000-jobs-added-2011-12-02
     
  9. eric.cornelison

    eric.cornelison New Member

    I can't really, death, retirement, I am not sure, but I am not sure you can either. It does not seem that anyone has a exact way of figuring out who stopped looking for work. All I am asking is how do they figure that? It really is an honest question, because I really do not know? I don't just make up things, I try to use real data or find out real data. I don't say because of this it is that. The fact is no one has actually told me how they figure it? If they have you, I am asking, truthfully, to tell me? Surely that is not a controversial question? Surely it is not?
     
  10. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    The gov't has always had a process in place to gather & diseminate data, what that is exactly I do not know. I'm sure it's readily available though.
     
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  11. eric.cornelison

    eric.cornelison New Member

    Thanks, I would like to find that out, if you run across it, let me know would you? Thanks.
     
  12. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    They collect the number of people employed. They know the number collecting unemployment. Their only guesstimate is the working population and that is a pretty well established formula (aided by birth records). When the working population goes up 100,000 while the employment and unemployment stay constant, the only answer is that 100,000 people have quit looking.
     
  13. De Orc

    De Orc Well-Known Member

    One explanation is that many are now working in what is known as the Black Economy in other words cash in hand jobs, 100 thousand is not a lot of people when you take into consideration the size of the USA Then within that number you might well have some who have gone into further education to improve the chances of getting a job, the ones who are possibly in prison left the country or even in hospital and finally some who have given up hope
     
  14. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    That was merely an example with simplified math. And, BTW, I was talking about one month. The actual figures for one year were;
    See post #48 above. Would you care to explain the 1,793,000?
     
  15. De Orc

    De Orc Well-Known Member

    In exactly the same way as I explained 100 thousand you have a population of approx
    312,810,000 Million so again that is not a large %

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

    In November, 2.6 million persons were marginally attached to the labor force, about the same as a year earlier. (The data are not seasonally adjusted.) These individuals were not in the labor force, wanted and were available for work, and had looked for a job sometime in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed because they had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey. (See table A-16.) Among the marginally attached, there were 1.1 million discouraged workers in November, a decrease of 186,000 from a year earlier. (The data are not seasonally adjusted.) Discouraged workers are persons not currently looking for work because they believe no jobs are available for them. The remaining 1.5 million persons marginally attached to the labor force in November had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey for reasons such as school attendance or family responsibilities. (See table A-16.)
     
  16. De Orc

    De Orc Well-Known Member

    Oh and by the way I have no need to explain anything you are the person who said there was only 1 explanation I simply gave you alternatives to your single explanation. If you wish to discard those possibilities thats fine by me as well
     
  17. IQless1
    Blah

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum

    Not one of your definitions, not one, are true about Obama. A mature, reasonable person would concede that I have sucessfully won the point that the beliefs you, Coin, David, and others have on Obama "flip-floppin" on Gitmo are baseless accusations and untrue. Admit you were wrong, or are you going to continue to deny the truth ad nauseum? Admit it, or be a coward.
     
  18. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    But you definition was
    All 3 of the dictionaries I referenced belie you definition, but you still think you are correct. Again, I will ask you to cite just one reference that agrees with you definition.

    BTW, did you notice just how I said that without one derogatory comment about you?
     
  19. IQless1
    Blah

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum

    You have chosen not to admit you were wrong to make the accusation that Obama "flip-flpped" on Gitmo, and to have berated me senselessly and relentlessly throughout this thread. You are unreasonable, as your arguments are untenable. There is no reason for me to continue debating this issue with you. Admit you were wrong, or be a coward.
     
  20. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    The dictionary definitions exactly correlate to your scenario of the events, but you keep saying he did not flip-flop apparently because you disagree with the dictionaries. All I would like to see is anything that supports your definition. By asking for you definition, you say I am berating you senseless, unreasonable, and for some reason a coward (I won't ask). If that upsets you so much, discontinue your "discussion" as you keep threatening to do.
     
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