Oh That Dreaded Health Care Law - Obama Cares!

Under Obamacare you are going to get the exact same coverage available to you now....the Medicare/Medicaid system. You will be unaffected. The same can't be said for us all.

 

Correct, since I believe it is an inalienable right (a practical application of "life" and "pursuit of happiness") and I am unable to afford it.

*(in response to rlm's question, as I had not seen David's comment prior to posting mine.)

 

So I have a question. Just where does your right to care end and the doctors right to a life of his own begin?

 

It's understandable why you may come to that conclusion, but it is incorrect. I am not covered by the Medicare/Medicaid system. I pay for all procedures myself. The doctor/health system in my area asks how much money I make prior to service and limits options that would be available to patients with more money.

The doctor/health system is a business, and those who cannot afford a service, and are not in an emergency, are intentionally denied services that would make them healthier, though some may not be aware that this is occurring since it is done as a matter of procedure.

 

In what way are you saying a "doctor's right to a life of his own" is being denied to him? Financially? My health versus my doctor's ability to buy expensive things. I choose my health. My doctor may not be able to afford that sleek jet he had his eye on, but his collection of small planes is still intact.

 

Why not? You should be, if you are destitute as you would have us believe.

 

When you are in a community where there are not enough doctors to treat everyone, your rights to health care would then require a doctor to work 24/7 if necessary to treat those in need. Don't think it can happen? That is where we are headed now due to the restriction doctors are being put under. (And I do not mean just legal restrictions.)

 

I'd say it's what you believe it to be, and it's not accurate. My income is low, true, but I've also stated that I live with three other adults. Together as a family I consider our income to be in the lower end of the middle-class.

But since you feel my income is fair game, yours is too... and I have some questions of my own.

Your income is apparently far greater. Why? You've said your employer is very generous which leads me to believe you don't truly believe your income should be that high. So, how is that fair? You also say you only work 3 or 4 days a week, and may retire at 45. How is that fair? Normal retirement age is approaching 70 for people like me. In some cases people work into their 80s because they can't afford to retire. How is that fair?

Fairness is a matter of perspective.

 

There are artificial limits in place for producing doctors. One reason is to infate the value of their work. At current patient levels, when there are too many doctors, they don't all have as much work to do, and overall they make less money. The system is set-up to limit the amount of available doctors in order to justify the value of the degree.

But for a somewhat competing point of view, there's this... from the medical point of view:
http://www.doctorsecrets.com/secrets-in-medicine/how-to-become-a-doctor.htm

My argument is that we are capable of graduating twice as many doctors per year as we do now. The demand is there, but is kept artificially low to ensure that doctors earn enough money to justify the cost of their degree.

 

Yep, it is kept artificially low. At 1/4 M a pop, there ae not many out there who want to try,

 

Well, here's the deal...I worked very, very hard for a large bank for 20 years, did a very good job and made alot of money. We saved and invested wisely & lived well below our means. Before that I worked to put myself through college (without the curse of student loan debt, much to moens displeasure) and continued my education by earning an MBA.
Fair? I think so. I worked harder & studied harder than my peers & I was rewarded.
As for my current position, my employer made me an offer & I accepted....negotiating foe less pay never entered my mind. I am paid well and I enjoy my job & the people I work with. My boss is a super individual & has created an environment that almost doesn't seem like work. I thank God every day for what I have and I don't feel the least bit guilty for being able to retire at a younger than average age.

 

I'm not certain how accurate the figures are from my link, but they say this:

$18,000 repayment/year with $100,000 to $250,000 wages. Much more manageable than the typical students graduating today who can't find jobs that they thought would be waiting for them. If they're lucky they can work at Burger king or something and make $12,000 a year.

 

I sincerely doubt that you could go to a community college for 8 years for just $110,000. It would have cost me $85,000 tuition just to get my 4 year degree at OU or OSU and they are amongst the cheapest universiies in the nation. And then you have to add room and board. I would bet your figure is to get their 4 year graduate degree. When you add that to their 4 year undergraduate degree, you come up with a figure nearly equal to my $250,000 figure.

 

Doctors are not poor. Increasing the patient load while increasing the pool of doctors neutralizes any financial loss or work-strain on them. They can continue to shop for lear jets and yachts and in a few short years their loans will be payed off and they can then afford to buy those toys even while taking more days off, making their typical three-day weekend a four-day one, etc.

 

I think you need to learn the steps to becoming a doctor. After the 8 years, they are not yet practicing doctors. There is something called residency. And that does not include any extra time devoted to becoming a specialist (the one you see in Lear jets and yachts - that is assuming their pay is not cut by Obamacare. BTW, do you really want doctors who are not making good wages and are worried about how they are going to pay off their loans operating on you? Somehow, I was a lot more comfortable getting cut on by someone who could concentrate on curing me.

 

My point is that doctor's are well paid, and self-limit their hours and that isn't going to change under the new law... doctors are not going to cancel their 3-day weekends to care for the new influx of patients... what will happen is appointments will be made more in advance than they are now.

An example of that is: while most dentist's in my area have a wait-time of maybe a week or two, my current dentist has a three to four month waiting period. Except emergencies... those he takes care of promptly. By the way, he is also looking forward to owing a million dollar plus yacht in the next couple years.

In order to lower that wait-time more doctors should be allowed to graduate... there will certainly be enough work for them and in no time at all they will be rich.

 

I absolutely agree that students should be encouraged to become doctors. But think about this a minute. You keep touting how well off all these doctors are. All their yachts, boats, great pay, days off work, but still there is a shortage of doctors and that is forecast to become much worse in the near future. Do you think you might be missing something? My guess is that most doctors put in more hours just becoming doctors (education and internship) than most Americans work in 20 years - and, no, I do not think I am exaggerating. I also think you will find that most doctors may only see patients for your 4 day work week, but just about every doctor I have had was in the hospital during your "3-day weekends". As a for instance, I spent 23 days in the hospital mostly due to pneumonia. The doctor that operated on me missed 2 days of patient rounds and the pulmonary specialist missed 4 (if I remember correctly). As for your dentist and his "million dollar plus yacht", I think you should look for another. None of the dentists I have seen would even approach such.

 

To be fair, the dentist in question is high-end and in high demand... and he severely overcharges IMO... for the record I can't afford his care anymore.

The doctors and specialists I speak of are common in rural areas, ...small cities... but I know city docs, especially interns ...or when they are in the middle of training ...whatever, do work extremely long and brutal hours. To be fair though, they choose to do so, and any influx of new patients isn't going to affect their hours in any significant way.

Now what about all the new jobs being created as a result of this new influx of patients? With more demand there is going to be more hiring, more jobs... and not just doctors but all related supply fields... and therefore more money to be made ...and the economy will improve as a result. I consider all those to be desirable outcomes of the new law, and another beneficial aspect to our country besides having healthier citizens... which by itself is a huge benefit considering the number of lost work hours from treatable diseases that go untreated due to inability to afford care.

 

So we both agree - there are not enough doctors. However, you avoid my question. Their life is so great, why are there not more doctors? That further begs the question how are we going fill the demand to create all these jobs if there are not more doctors to fill the needs? BTW, the forecast is for there not to be enough to fill those needs.

 

Well, I did some checking. You may "consider" your group home's total income but the current system does not unles they happen to be a spouse. It only takes your income into account. If you are below the poverty line (which you have claimed to be) and you have minor dependents (of which you claim to have at least one), you are exactly the person Medicare/Medicaid was designed to benefit. Now why wouldn't you have known this? Why are you looking so forward to Obamacare when you have those exact same benefits available to you right now? You really should explain this to the class.
Dunno, but it appears you are not being honest with us.