Socialism In Greece Threatens World Financial Stability

Many thanks for the welcome, Moen!

David :

"Let me ask you this, why wouldn't you want someone to establish they are who they say you are prior to casting a vote?"

I don't know what gave you the impression I don't. But there's a choice to be made between over-the-top measures to establish identity beyond the most improbable doubts, and making sure you don't put unnecessary barriers in the way of legitimate voters. Where would you draw the line in establishing identity? Throat swabs?

As for "far left", I'm guessing that's code for anyone to the left of Genghis Khan.

 

"Abortion (as birth control) by definition is the snuffing out of an innocent life."

How can it possibly be "by definition" when many people (quite possibly the majority of the population) have an entirely different definition? It's word games because you're pretending not to understand the premise on which the other side are basing their argument. But, to be fair, the pro-choice side are often guilty of the same thing.

 

I hardly think, nor do I think you believe, an id card of some type is "over-the-top". No one is asking for throat swabs, blood tests, means test or anything remotely similar. Please explain how presenting an id card is over-the-top or an unnecessary barrier to voting.

 

Oh I understand the "premise" of the pro-abortionist crowd.....it's easier to have an abortion than to accept the responsibilities of one's actions. But the consequence of the abortion is that a life is ended. An innocent life that never had a chance.

 

Always nice to have another Brit! Our moderator DeOrc (Steve) is from your side of the pond as well. Is that picture of you on your blog you at the Royal Armory? If so which one? I’ll have to get more familiar with your blog. Congrats on your award. Didn’t realize there was such a thing.

 

"I hardly think, nor do I think you believe, an id card of some type is "over-the-top". No one is asking for throat swabs, blood tests, means test or anything remotely similar. Please explain how presenting an id card is over-the-top or an unnecessary barrier to voting."

If you do not think I believe that a requirement to present an ID card is over-the-top, you are deeply mistaken. I'm glad to have the chance to correct that misconception for you. On your latter question, anything that has the effect of resulting in a large number of legitimate voters failing to cast their votes is - dare I say "by definition" - an unnecessary barrier to voting.

"Oh I understand the "premise" of the pro-abortionist crowd.....it's easier to have an abortion than to accept the responsibilities of one's actions."

You claim that you understand the premise of the pro-choice side of the argument (which I agree that you do) - and then complete your sentence by pretending that premise is something other than it is. How more disingenuous could you be? (Please don't interpret that as a challenge.)

 

No, it was taken (by my cousin from Texas, as it happens!), at the visitor centre at Bannockburn, where the Scots won the decisive battle for independence in 1314.

 

Thanks, I was just curious because it looked like the garb they put on us when we visited The Royal Armouries Museum in Leeds. Never have I seen so many swords, pikes, and spears in one place. Absolutely amazing.

 

Please explain to me how identifying oneself prior to casting a vote is "over-the-top".

 

"Please explain to me how identifying oneself prior to casting a vote is "over-the-top"."

Nice try, but I've already pointed out to you that I believe that people should indeed have to identify themselves prior to casting a vote. That is not the same thing as believing that people should be required to present an ID card, any more than holding pro-choice beliefs is the same thing as believing that murder is acceptable.

How ironic that it was you who introduced the topic of 'word games' into this discussion...

 

I know I am late to this discussion, but just how do you plan on identifying yourself if you don't present an ID card?

 

The current system in mainland Britain, where I live, is as follows :

You are sent a polling card. If you present the card at the polling station, you are allowed to vote. If you do not present the card, you have to give your name and address, and then your name is crossed off the list and you are allowed to vote. This system is of course in theory open to abuse, but if there was wide-scale fraud it would soon become obvious because people would be turning up in large numbers and told they have already voted.

Any downsides to this system are infinitely preferable to an over-the-top system that effectively robs people of their votes, especially if those people belong disproportionately to one particular political persuasion.

 

How interesting. Your are less afraid of voter fraud than underage drinking? Than an underage teen getting into the wrong movie? After the number of dead people DOCUMENTED to have voted in Chicago, I tend to fear the voter fraud robbing the rightfully majority of their say more then denying someone the vote who does not have an ID. Sorry.

 

OK, we agree voters need to be able to identify themselves prior to casting a vote. What are you talking about when you mention "over-the-top" and "barriers" to votoing?

 

I may be missing something here, but try as I might I can't recall saying anything one way or the other about underage drinking or underage cinema watching. As for DEAD PEOPLE voting in Chicago, the system I set out earlier could easily cope with that without putting unnecessary hurdles in the way of legitimate voters - all that is required is a method to remove dead people from the voting register promptly. That's scarcely beyond the wit of man.

And no need to apologise - there's room for more than one opinion in this world. Or am I being controversial there?

David :

"What are you talking about when you mention "over-the-top" and "barriers" to voting?"

Sigh. We've already established that - a requirement to present an ID card prior to voting.

 

OK, so please tell me how presenting ID is "over-the-top".

 

"OK, so please tell me how presenting ID is "over-the-top"."

And, again, I've already explained that, but I'm happy to repeat myself for as long as it takes. Voter turnout in the US is already abysmally low, so anything that puts yet more hurdles in the way of legitimate voters is - "by definition" - over-the-top.

Incidentally, it's a curious form of words that rlm's cents used earlier - "I tend to fear the voter fraud robbing the rightfully majority of their say more then denying someone the vote who does not have an ID". The whole point I'm making is that by denying a legitimate voter his or her vote you are in many cases preventing the will of the majority from prevailing. Which I rather suspect is the intention.

 

No, you keeping saying things but you still won't (can't?) tell me why you believe presenting ID is a barrier to voting or keeps people from the polls. etc. After asking you this same question several times, I would appreciate a straight answer.

 

Interestingly, you skirted my questions about the other countries that have had a tiny elite class and a huge "worker" class. It is my opinion that it is not the system, but the leadership, that causes the opportunity for such abuses as you describe. However, I do notice that for all that you deny socialism being at the heart of the current political climate in this country, that you certainly have fallen into the language of it. By the way, yes, I do believe that voting rights are under attack. By allowing people to vote without documentation then we are effectively opening our polls to any individual, including undocumented illegal aliens, and selling our country's future down the river. Are we not ashamed of the corruption that was widespread in Illinois, Louisiana, and New York in the past? If we are, then why allow such corruption to become rampant by failing to require verifiable state or federal American photo identification? If we are not ashamed, then why are we not?

 

And having been considerably more patient than your game-playing warrants, at some point I would appreciate an acknowledgement that I have answered your question. I appreciate that you don't much care for my answer, but that's a different matter entirely.