Occupy Wall Street Protests

I'm not talking about your average person being scared. I believe that people in positions of power will always be afraid of a mob that has no focus other than its anger toward the people in power. An unfocused mob is more frightening to me than one with a purpose. If they want something, you have a bargaining position to work with. If all they want is to vent their anger, you can't really do much but let them.

 

There's a world of difference between "a mob that has no focus but anger" and the spontaneous groups of frustrated citizens -- no longer willing to be simply "consumers" -- who occupy Wall Street and South Bend, Indiana and the Alaskan Tundra. Anyone who has followed the news in recent years has learned some of the facts about the economic woes that drive these frustrations. Student loan debt will reach $1 trillion within the next two months. How are unemployed students going to pay off this unforgivable debt? Banks still enjoy free money at the Fed window, and refuse to make loans of it to small businesses and individuals. Families pay more for gas, food, shelter, education ... but make less and less at work, if they can find work.
Far from being unfocused, the frustrations exhibited at the Occupy events are focused on the plight of real middle class people, and the institutions that they believe robbed them of their American dream. IMHO!

 

Meh, I agree with most of what I'm hearing from OWS. I was simply expanding on a point that I was making to another poster. They have no focused agenda and they seem to like it that way. I think it's a good tactic-- one I was actually defending. The are angry, and rightfully so. However, I've also seen a lot of pictures out of the protests that make them look like the same kind of rubes who show up at tea party rallies with teabags pinned to their clothing. If you take the stage in the theater of the absurd, you run the risk of appearing absurd.

 

And it was about as "spontaneous" as Sunday Mass.

 

Maybe it all depends on your perspective. My daughter -- a college professor -- was a spontaneous participant in a local Occupy rally, so it seems likely to me that others have had similar experiences. Anything that encompasses 99 percent of citizens is bound to sprout a few erratic participants, don't you think? The fact that these groups have so much support from American people at large (a population that also has a few odd ducks!) is very encouraging to me!

 

I get the venting of anger. (I was the other poster that criticized the OWS). I get the source of this anger. And while I may not agree with everything that OWS is about (I think there is blame that goes on certain corporations, but I would want more discussion about the failures of government and individuals), as a purely organizational exercise I do not see this as being effective. Unfocused rage I think is too easy to dismiss because it provides uneven pressure over time.

 

But are you assuming that "leaderless" equates to unfocused? I just don't think there is any doubt at all in the minds of the bankers, the corporate offenders, the politicians or the lobbyists about why those folks are protesting on Wall Street and all over. There's no longer a level playing field for regular folks who thought they were following the right path to upward mobility. All the pols talk about is austerity while taxpayer-bailed bankers who caused the collapse take home millions in salaries and bonuses. Bank lobbyists effectively block courts from cramming down mortgage payments in foreclosures, even when home prices were so inflated as to be laughable. And student loans will weigh the youngsters down for decades to come. I think the messages are quite clear!

 

I keep hearing these class warfare slogans, but what do they mean? What exactly is a "level playing field"? And who are these evil "bankers" people love to vilify? Why isn't your anger directed towards the politicians who gave the money rather than the recipients? Afterall, it's kinda disengenious to complain others are receiving gov't money while at the same time demanding it for yourself, don't you think? And student loan debt? The blame lies squarely on the schools pushing it & the student who enters into it. It's funny how one can connect a student's loan debt debt & inability to get a satisfactory job with "greed" or "corruption" or whatever platitudes are popular this morning.

 

Because congress, either side of the aisle, and the judiciary in this country are nothing more than bought institutions. The real question is why aren't you blaming those doing the buying? I seem to have no problem really hating the wholly own subsidiary of corporate America known as the Republican Party and also guilty to a lesser extent but still bought and sold are many members of the Democrat Party. But I have yet to see you even once criticize those people paying the bribes. Why do you completely, totally, and exclusively focus on one side of the problem while never once looking at those corrupting the system with boatloads of money? It’s like blaming the drug addicts without blaming the dealers. The addiction has to start somewhere and the fact that the dealers are getting richer and richer off of the misery of drug addicts seems to make you think that it’s all just business to the point where you actually have pride in the dealers. What’s up with that?

 

Moen -

I am sorry. But doesn't drug addiction start when the drug addict first starts taking drugs? Why is that never brought up? Maybe people aren't purely the victims you are portraying them to be. Also, hating? You hate the Republican party? Wow...that counterproductive. There is no way a republican can have a good idea if you hate them.

Ok. New plan. We take guys like Moen, and his republican counterparts. We take Rush, and Mathews, and Coulter, and Maddow, and O'Reilly, and Olberman and put them all in Thunderdome, and let them just hate on each other. Than the rest of us can be productive and fix all the problems these guys created.

 

Now, THAT'S a breath of fresh air! I could just see Chris Matthews quivering in the corner and slobbering all over himself...

 

He is all about hate...you'll never be able to get a lucid thought or idea from him, everything is directly fed to him by the far, far left.

 

Hey Moen, don't you love how they very subtly changed your words from "hate the republican party" to "hate republicans?" The easiest way to win a discussion is to just change your opponents position to one you can actually argue against.

 

Who is "they"?

 

It's pretty common around here Ds. Did you notice that he still avoided any criticism of those doing the bribing? He'll dodge and misdirect but never answer a direct question if he feels he can character assassinate another member instead. The corporations can do no wrong in his eyes as long as they are making money. I guess if you worship money above all else, then those that have the most must seem like Gods to you. His favorite slam is called everyone he doesn't agree with far, far Left. When we did political surveys, I was no where near far Left but he was definitely far Right. And far Right-wingers have been driving the crazy train in their party for the past decade. Hard to deny that seeing their field of nuts running for president.

BTW Welcome! Nice to have another person that uses reason. They are in short supply here.

 

Let me work backwards on this one. First, greed and corruption are not platitudes, they are behaviors that negatively affect other people, much like violence and drunk driving are behaviors that can have unpleasant consequences for innocent bystanders. Many of the OWS protesters are those innocent bystanders who want the perpetrators to know they've been fingered.

Student loan debt. Sigh. I attended The University of Michigan years ago, not inexpensive for a public university. I worked, had some help from my folks and took out student loans. I paid $45 a month for several years and it was done. It was a reasonable exchange, as doors opened for me as a result of my education that otherwise would not. That's not true anymore for these kids, but they believed it would be. They were lied to, by everyone making a profit off their misery. There are not enough jobs and the ones there are, don't pay enough for these kids to ever get free of that debt. I don't know what the solution is. I'm just waiting for someone to acknowledge the problem and propose an answer.

 

Some people work multiple jobs to pay as they go, those who chose otherwise pay now.

By the way, I noticed moen, our resident proponent & defender of student loan debt has been remarkably quiet through all of this. Wonder why?

 

Better focus...you seem to be talking about me while the other poster was referring to someone else.

By the way, what's your take on all these discussions & protests regarding the student loan debt topic? Since you are in that industry, I'd like your view on the subject.

 

How interesting, but the most extreme rating was Takiji and yours was second. Funny, but "his" was not there so I have no idea how you decided how extreme "he" really is. If you don't believe me, see http://www.partisanlines.com/threads/a-new-poll.3937/.

BTW, mine is still the most centered rating there.

 

Attack, attack, attack! You really ARE a proponent of the Obama Doctrine!