Who Would've Thought That Africa Knew How To Clean Up The Mess Of Socialism...?

It turns out they're right!
It hurts but do what we did, Africans tell Europeans

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - As the world's finance czars clamored this week for decisive action to clean up Europe's debt crisis, ministers from the planet's poorest region Africa were quietly saying "been there, done that".

A weekend briefing by African finance ministers at IMF/World Bank meetings in Washington attracted modest media attention, but there was quiet pride in the way representatives from tiny states like Cape Verde and Gambia were able to claim concrete achievements in managing debt and public finances.
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http://news.yahoo.com/hurts-did-africans-tell-europeans-185638645.html

 

No offense, but that was a lot of fluff, and little substance. Reading it, I felt like I was listening to a politician making a speech. I do know a bit of the strides Africa has taken in the last 5/10 years, and if you had those in there then the thread title might have made some sense. It needs more details... like what they have done that has been an improvement, not just mentioning that there has been improvement... it needs those details. Post some of those and I'll take another look later.

 

A search of Google should suffice.

 

Sorry, I'm just saying that the OP was too vague. "Europe should do what we did" with no details on what they did. Then the title of the thread suggests that Africa has become anti-socialist (which I would strongly disagree with), again... no details.

It's fluff lol ... Would it kill you to provide details? Like I said, I have read some stuff on Africa... not enough to be an expert, but enough to get a general idea of it's various politics and social climates.

 

I disagree. The article explains how the African nations built a system based on macroeconomic reforms, debt management and better budget management while upgrading power and infrastructure. They've proven that a system based on a concrete business-oriented footing works, especially utility and telecom corporations. The African nations, while perhaps not anti-socialistic, certainly have grasped the tenets of capitalism and a free-market society, discovered that those principles work and are showing the Europeans how to clean up their financial nightmare due to handouts, entitlements and debt (and probably unions, too. I just had to throw that in).

 

I'd agree that some countries in Africa are making the move towards being less Socialist and more Capitalist, but I wouldn't say Africa as a whole is... it's too fractured.

I know, it's semantics... ...I just wanted to clarify that.

 

As far as I know, Africans have realized that socialism didn't work; and cannot work. So they have adopted capitalism. That's the official policy. But in practise, there hasn't been much change. The reason is the leaders of most of the African countries are still bent on making themselves rich at the expense of their people and country.

Take the example of Angola. The immense riches from oil are being shared out between China and Angola's leaders. Tanzania gave up socialism a while back, but there have been no significant economic gains. Kenya, the taditional bright spot, has always been capitalist; but is still struggling. The list goes on indefinitely: Nigeria; Congo; Zimbabwe....

In almost all the cases, it's either the greed of the politicians, or the sheer odds against them due to weather, world prices for their products, exploitation by countries like China.

 

Sudan is in the process of splitting into two seperate areas, and oil is a big part of the tensions there too.

 

Great! Another "Isn't Socialism bad", "Socialism is to blame for everything", by Okie. We get it! You blame Socialism for everything regardless of the truth. How enlightening. If you look at economic situation in this country alone, what exactly did Socialism contribute? Wasn't it more the fault of greedy unregulated Capitalists that crashed our economy? Where was Socialism? Either Socialism is really, really good to the Wall Street crowd or maybe Socialism had nothing to do with it. Well, except that the people did get to bailout the Bankers. That seems like Socialism in reverse.

 

Yes, yes... we know you adore socialism and kneel at the altar of Bernie Sanders, too. Countries in Africa are showing that socialism didn't work for them and have taken steps to introduce capitalism which IS working.

Greedy, unregulated socialists are bad just as greedy capitalists are bad. But, the political structure of socialism is bad from the start, whereas capitalism is not. Too bad we can't remove "greed" from human nature.

 

I read an article about Cuba today. Funny how Cuba's (it also mentioned the transformations of China & Vietnam) rebirth & advances are being celebrated and it's all being attributed to it becoming a more capitalistic society. As a socialist country it deteriorated & the country fell into shambles....socialism, communism...they are all the same in the end.

 

I like Cuba. I'm angry at America for economically quaranteening the country as punishment for resisting the leash America was putting on it. Some dogs don't like leashes.

 

"Funny how Cuba's rebirth..."

Cuba has been "reborn", David? That's quite a testimonial for a avowedly socialist country coming from you, David.

"Yes, yes... we know you adore socialism and kneel at the altar of Bernie Sanders, too."

Bernie Sanders is, to the best of my knowledge, the only self-described socialist in Congress. You live in a country that's almost unique in the democratic world in having virtually no socialists in its national legislature, and yet you're more obsessed with the word 'socialism' than any country I can think of. It's like the non-existent bogeyman you use to frighten your children with.

 

Well, we should be ever vigilant against socialism. It didn't work in the USSR. It doesn't work in Cuba. It's not working in Africa. Or Greece. Or France. Or Spain. We certainly don't need it in the U.S. either.

 

I'm not at all surprised that "socialism isn't working" in France, given that they haven't had a socialist president since 1995, and they haven't had a socialist government since 2002. Whisper it gently, but what isn't working at the moment in France is conservatism...

 

in 2007, the Socialist Party in France won most of regional and local elections and it won control of theSenate in 2011 for the first time in more than fifty years. France has a long history of socialism just in case you didn't know. More socialism may be on the way, in fact:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/16/young-socialists-back-francois-hollande

 

Yeah! Africa should be the the model the rest of the world should follow.

Robber barons, sweat shops, child labor, unhealthy dangerous working conditions, environmental degradation, global warming, nuclear melt downs, deforestation, strip mining…all part and parcel of the history of Capitalism.

 

I believe the "rebirth" described in the article was in reference to Cuba moving away from socialism

 

And just what wonders did socialism and other non-capitalist economies bring us? Let's see. There was Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Gadaffi, Taylor, Idi, Sadam, Kim Jong-il, Hitler, Kim II Sung, etc.

 

I take it you do realise (in fact by the sound of it you probably don't) that France is one of the most centralised countries in western Europe, and that the regional tier of government is comparatively weak? Praying in aid the strength of the left in local elections when it's just been pointed out to you that the right have been in charge at national level for almost a decade is pretty desperate stuff. And the Senate? Since the left have had control there for less than two months, I'll be fascinated to see how you think that has any bearing at all on how things have been going wrong in France. As for your apparent belief that the socialism yet to come can somehow be to blame, words fail me!