Is it Time to Raise Taxes?

Most 'alternative' tax plans are just a way to shift the burden from one group or another. Those deadbeats aren't paying enough. Or, alternatively, those well to do-er's aren't paying enough.

Not to say some plans don't have some merit...it is just the reasons behind them that are suspect and could do more harm than good. But, there is no doubt our current system is corrupt. Too many breaks and subsidies and etc, etc. None of which is particularly well-targeted. Shotgun approach is what I call it. Too many hands in the cookie jar is also true, I think.

 

........or some segments are paying nothing at all......

 

That would be covered under the 'Those deadbeats aren't paying enough.' philosophy, I believe.

 

Actually, I was referring to folks like criminals (you know, the drug dealers & mobsters who don't pay any taxes at all), people cheating the system by getting paid under the table or lying about their income, etc. People without incomes but possessing great wealth will also have to contribute which should make the libs/socialists happy. Foreign visitors will also contribute. Those you have been shouldering the burden will benefit while those who have not contributed will be forced to pay their share.

 

I think that there are already mechanisms in place to catch people making money under the table. They certainly are enforced when stupid criminals that have made a ton of money try to spend it. Have you ever tried to put $10,000 in cash into a bank? You'd be surprised at how much scrutiny that will draw. Even doing several deposits that fall just under the $10,000 trigger will get you noticed. Even if you have a mattress full of cash and pay for everything in cash, you will get noticed eventually.

However, if you are Bernie Madoff and you are bilking billions of dollars from investors, or you are Enron cooking your books, or you are Arthur Andersen helping to cook the books, you are doing a heck of a lot more damage than any group of drug deals or pimps could ever do. I don't worry so much about the seedy underbelly of society not paying into the system nearly as much as I worry about the guys in the Armani suits stealing money by the truckload and paying off politicians to look the other way. Why ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room just because there happens to be a couple of mice nibbling on some crumbs in the corner?

 

I'm all for going after the crooks, both big & small, but you are steering away from the topic of taxation. If we reform the current system and eliminate the loopholes...all the loopholes...what's the downside? The "mechanisms" as you call them don't begin to scratch the surface. You couldn't hide money if you wanted to? What you dismiss as a seedly underbelly is actually a mult-billion dollar enterprise that exists & thrives on illegal, unreported cash.

 

I have one...

I think we can all agree that in order to balance the budget and pay down the debt, we need (for some period of time) generate more revenues than we spend...agreed?

I consider myself a moderately well off 52 year old...I gross $120,000/year. However, with all the various federal, state, and local taxes I pay (not to mention property, sales, and excise taxes), I'm lucky to keep $60,000/year. Take out 401K, mortgage, car, utilities, home maintenance, and an very occasional round of golf or coin for my collection...I'm just getting by. The government either has to cut spending or raise revenue somewhere else...I'm tapped out.

I think everyone agrees that we need to control wasteful spending and increase the tax base. Republicans will say, "Raise taxes on corporations and lose jobs!". Democrats will say "Cut spending and lose jobs!". Can they both be right? What's the answer?

I work in Defense. We always cry when budgets get cut (managing budget is how we get promoted!), but push come to shove, we always find efficiencies to produce the same results with less. I'm sure the same is true across the board. Let's start by getting rid of useless government agencies like the Department of Education. We should only fund NASA enough to maintain "some" of their infrastructure, but no more. We need to take the axe to many other programs, as well.

I see commercials on PBS about how terrible it will be if they cut "Mystery" or "Antiques Roadshow"...two of my favorites, but I can do without them. There was a plea not to cut funding for childhood asthma research. My best friend's brother died of asthma in the 1970's...it was sad, but the sad truth is that people have been dying of many things for quite a long time. No doubt we should fund research into everything that's bad in the world...but only as long as we can pay for it. When we can't, then we need to make choices. Repeal of the new healthcare law would be a great start!

That addresses the expenditure side of things...how about revenue? They say that the top 1% of taxpayers pay over 50% of all income tax collected (or something like that). That may be true, but it's the average tax payer (such as myself) that pays the greatest percentage of their earnings in taxes...and the overall tax base is shrinking.

Every day when I come home, there are cards and flyers on my door offering to do everything from landscaping, siding, roofing, masonry, HVAC, you name it...for cash. Do you think these folks are declaring this income on their income tax? Do waiters or waitresses declare more than $1/hour in tips? Do illegal aliens pay for the services and infrastructure they use? Do criminals declare their "take" on a 1040EZ?

The current Federal Income Tax is over 100 years old. It's outlived its usefulness when large corporations can hire accounting firms and lobbyists to "game" the system at the expense of average tax payers and non-taxpayers receive tax rebates. Our income tax law taxes products Made in the USA, but not imports. Our exports carry imbedded income tax in their price, making them less competitive on foreign markets.

We need to bring our tax system up to date. We need to eliminate the income tax system and REPLACE it with a National Sales Tax. Not a Value Added Tax (which is only an income tax varient), but a one-time National Sales Tax. A National Sales Tax will tax everyone equally based on consumption...some may say "more fairly". Those that consume more, pay more tax. We collect tax on the sales of foreign goods sold in the US and remove embedded taxes on US product sold abroad. Our products are more competitive both domestically and abroad; bringing jobs back the US and further expanding the tax base.

The transition process will be a bit tricky, but there are a number of models that could work. Last month, the Senate Finance Committee held hearings on funding the debt. Every PHD economist advocated for the repeal of the Federal Income Tax in favor or a National Sales Tax...interesting.

 

I'm with you, Yak. It seems people are scared to death to even consider an alternative to our current tax system and I can't understand why. It's not are politically partisan proposal, it's common sense. While you're working everyday, paying nearly 50% in taxes & just getting by on $120k, the self-employed guy on one side is hiding his income & living large while the wealthy guy on the other side, who lives off his wealth is taxed at about one quarter of your effective rate....not to mention the worker, getting paid under the table, who doesn't report all of his income & still gets a $9,000 refund! But I guess this is simply too radical for some to comprehend. Go figure.

 

I'd like to see any numbers you have on that.

 

I think regular "people" love the idea. Who do you know looks forward to April 15th? The problem is that Lobbyists fund elections and election funding is a politician's "Crack Cocaine". The only way we can turn the tide is to vote in as many "Taxed Enough Already" TEA Party candidates as possible.

The most bipartisan support for ANYTHING today is that both Republicans and Democrats oppose the TEA Party. They portray them as white, Right of Right crackpots...similar to Nazis or the KKK. Nothing could be further from the truth. One of the three original members of the TEA Party Caucus in Congress is Rep. Alan West (Florida 22nd district) and retired US Army Lt. Colonel. Both Democrats and Republicans should hear him speak...he's awe inspiring!

TEA Party groups are cut from the same cloth as the Ross Perot supporters 20 years ago. They are the "conscience" of America and aren't beholding to either major party. They just want to see our country's problems get fixed and know that neither the Democrats nor Republicans have the political fortitude to supply answers. We have an annual $1.5 Trillion deficit! ...and the best both parties can come up with is $60 Billion in cuts! That's OUTRAGEOUS!!!

The budget wouldn't have been cut that much if it wasn't for the TEA Party. Now the Democrats aren't happy and want the money reinstated or they're going to force the Republicans to shut down government if they don't get their way. If that's the only way Democrats will take the deficit seriously...let's "SHUT 'ER DOWN!". I'll lose my job, but that's a price I'm willing to pay to break this stalemate.

 

Fairtax.org or you could research the myriad of studies that are out there.

 

These caricatures are created when the message (or messenger) can't be disputed. It's an age-old liberal tactic and the practice is alive and well. They paint conservatives as far right loons...people opposed to abortion are somehow religious zealots...Palin is marginalized despite the incredible record she had as the governor of Alaska.

 

It's an age-old tactic, indeed. If you don't have a good defense, go on the offensive... It doesn't work, however since we see right through it.

 

Here is my plan. Since the Democrats are always hell bent on raising taxes and they think it is the solution to the debt problem, I say let's raise taxes only on registered Democrats. They seem not to mind that criminal enterprises don't pay taxes and most consider Republicans criminals anyway. They don't need our money.

 

My answer wihout reading this thread is:

NO, it is nevertime to raise taxes. I would not raise taxes under any circumstances or in any situation. Cut the pork, cut the waste first.

 

FINALLY! A man with a brain in his head! It's like a breath of fresh air around here especially listening to all these "tax and spend" liberals!! Thanks, Jack!!

 

Can any of you even remember the last time taxes were raised? I doubt it. You sit around nodding in agreement like you have springs for necks and don't even realize how inane you sound. You want everything today, you want to complain about the debt, and you want your children to pay for it. Typical. Nobody likes higher taxes and what is supposed to happen is that we are supposed to get incremental increases annually that off-set higher taxes. Wages have been flat for what seems like forever but costs have also gone up. The debt is increasing because so little revenue is coming in and we end up borrowing more and more of our kids future. Anyone that can actually understand math can tell you that cutting spending might sound like the feel good solution but we are already at a point that it isn't going to scratch the surface of the debt but clueless idiots keep chanting the same stupid mantra as if it were actually a real solution. I've already laid out the problem and the solution. If you can't understand how math actually works keep chanting "No taxes". I'm sure that the other third of corporations that actually pay some taxes will hear you and be happy to oblige while they make record profits, hide them in off-shore accounts, and ship jobs to India.

 

So let's see...basically, what you are saying is: our incomes are the same but our costs are higher? What would you do in your household?

 

You guys wanna see some tumbleweeds?

Hey Moen,

Please tell us the last time the federal government raised taxes during an economic recession?