A Lesson Americans Can Learn from the Egyptian Revolt

Now that Mubarak has stepped down, what can we Americans learn from the Egyptian people? I believe that the lesson is that in less than a month, average people were able to flood the streets of several major cities and without guns bring down a very powerful dictator. Who would have thought that there was a Second Amendment lesson half way across the world? I know that the gun crowd can't bear to hear this lesson and I don't expect them to change their minds about the relationship they claim exists between gun ownership and our freedom, but it is hard to deny that a third world country was able to free itself from a tyrant without firing a shot. Never mind the fact that Tunisia did exactly the same thing only weeks earlier. The real power to preserve our freedom is in the hearts and minds of the American people, not in the guns they hold in their hands.

Democracy protests bring down Egypt's Mubarak
By PAUL SCHEMM and MAGGIE MICHAEL

CAIRO — Fireworks burst over Tahrir Square and Egypt exploded with joy and tears of relief after pro-democracy protesters brought down President Hosni Mubarak with a momentous march on his palaces and state TV. Mubarak, who until the end seemed unable to grasp the depth of resentment over his three decades of authoritarian rule, finally resigned Friday and handed power to the military.

"The people ousted the regime," rang out chants from crowds of hundreds of thousands massed in Cairo's central Tahrir, or Liberation, Square and outside Mubarak's main palace several miles away in a northern district of the capital.

The crowds in Cairo, the Mediterranean city of Alexandria and other cities around the country erupted into a pandemonium of cheers and waving flags. They danced, hugged and raised their hands in prayer after Vice President Omar Suleiman made the announcement on national TV just after nightfall. Some fell to kiss the ground, and others chanted, "Goodbye, goodbye" and "put your heads up high, you're Egyptian."

"Finally we are free," said Safwan Abou Stat, a 60-year-old protester. "From now on anyone who is going to rule will know that these people are great."

The success of the biggest popular uprising ever seen in the Arab world had stunning implications for the region, the United States and the West, and Israel.

On Ground in Cairo, Change Begins
Mubarak was the symbol of the implicit decades-old deal the United States made in the Middle East: Support for autocratic leaders in return for their guarantee of stability, a bulwark against Islamic militants and peace — or at least an effort at peace — with Israel.

The United States at times seemed overwhelmed throughout the 18 days of upheaval, fumbling to juggle its advocacy of democracy and the right to protest, its loyalty to longtime ally Mubarak and its fears Muslim fundamentalists could gain a foothold. Those issues will only grow in significance as Egypt takes the next steps towards what the protest movement hopes will be a true democracy — in which the Muslim Brotherhood will likely to be a significant political player.

Neighboring Israel watched with the crisis with unease, worried that their 1979 peace treaty could be in danger. It quickly demanded on Friday that post-Mubarak Egypt continue to adhere to it. Any break seems unlikely in the near term: The military leadership supports the treaty. While anti-Israeli feeling is strong among Egyptians and future ties may be strained, few call for outright abrogating a treaty that has kept peace after three wars in the past half-century.

From the oil-rich Gulf states in the east to Morocco in the west, regimes both pro- and anti-U.S. could not help but worry they could see a similar upheaval. Several of the region's authoritarian rulers have made pre-emptive gestures of democratic reform to avert their own protest movements.

The lesson many took: If it could happen in only three weeks in Egypt, where Mubarak's lock on power had appeared unshakable, it could happen anywhere. Only a month earlier, Tunisia's president was forced to step down in the face of protests.

Perhaps more surprising was the genesis of the force that overthrew Mubarak. The protests were started by a small core of secular, liberal youth activists organizing on the Internet who only a few months earlier struggled to gather more than 100 demonstrators at a time. But their work through Facebook and other social network sites over the past few years built a greater awareness and bitterness among Egyptians over issues like police abuse and corruption.

When the called the first major protest, on Jan. 25, they tapped into a public inspired by Tunisia's revolt and thousands turned out, beyond even the organizers' expectations. From there, protests swelled, drawing hundreds of thousands. The Muslim Brotherhood — Egypt's powerful Islamic fundamentalist movement — joined in. But far from U.S. fears the Brotherhood could co-opt the protests, the movement often seemed to co-opt the Brotherhood, forcing it to set aside its hard-line ideology at least for now to adhere to democratic demands.

Mubarak, a former air force commander came to power after the 1981 assassination of his predecessor Anwar Sadat by Islamic radicals. Throughout his rule, he showed a near obsession with stability, using rigged elections and a hated police force accused of widespread torture to ensure his control.

He resisted calls for reform even as public bitterness grew over corruption, deteriorating infrastructure and rampant poverty in a country where 40 percent live below or near the poverty line.

Up to the last hours, Mubarak sought to cling to power, handing some of his authorities to Suleiman while keeping his title.

But an explosion of protests Friday rejecting the move appeared to have pushed the military into forcing him out completely. Hundreds of thousands marched throughout the day in cities across the country as soldiers stood by, besieging his palaces in Cairo and Alexandria and the state TV building. A governor of a southern province was forced to flee to safety in the face of protests there.

Mubarak himself flew to his isolated palace in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, 250 miles from the turmoil in Cairo.

His fall came 32 years to the day after the collapse of the shah's government in Iran.

Vice President Suleiman — who appears to have lost his post as well in the military takeover — appeared grim as he delivered the short announcement.

"In these grave circumstances that the country is passing through, President Hosni Mubarak has decided to leave his position as president of the republic," he said. "He has mandated the Armed Forces Supreme Council to run the state. God is our protector and succor."

Nobel Peace laureate Mohammed ElBaradei, whose young supporters were among the organizers of the protest movement, told The Associated Press, "This is the greatest day of my life."

"The country has been liberated after decades of repression," he said adding that he expects a "beautiful" transition of power.

The question now turned to what happens next after effectively a military coup, albeit one prompted by overwhelming popular pressure. Protesters on Friday had overtly pleaded for the army to oust Mubarak. The country is now ruled by the Armed Forces Supreme Council, the military's top body consisting of its highest ranking generals and headed by Defense Minister Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi.

After Mubarak's resignation, a military spokesman appeared on state TV and promised the army would not act as a substitute for a government based on the "legitimacy of the people."

He said the military was preparing the next steps needed "to acheive the ambitions of our great nation" and would announce them soon. He praised Mubarak for his contributions ot the country, then expressed the military's condolences for protesters killed in the unrest, standing at attention to give a salute.

Earlier in the day, the council vowed to guide the country to greater democracy. It said was committed "to shepherding the legitimate demands of the people and endeavoring to their implementation within a defined timetable until a peaceful transition to a democratic society aspired to by the people."

Abdel-Rahman Samir, one of the protest organizers, said the movement would now open negotiations with the military over democratic reforms but vowed protests would continue to ensure change is carried out.

"We still don't have any guarantees yet — if we end the whole situation now the it's like we haven't done anything," he said. "So we need to keep sitting in Tahrir until we get all our demands."

But, he added, "I feel fantastic. .... I feel like we have worked so hard, we planted a seed for a year and a half and now we are now finally sowing the fruits."

Sally Toma, another of the organizers, said she did not expect the military would try to clear the square. "We still have to sit and talk. We have to hear the army first," she said.

For the moment, concerns over the next step were overwhelmed by the wave of joy and disbelief.

Outside the Oruba presidential palace in northern Cairo, where tens of thousands had marched during the day, one man sprawled on the grass, saying he couldn't believe it. Protesters began to form a march toward Tahrir in a sea of Egyptian flags.

Thousands from across the capital of 18 million streamed into Tahrir, where protesters hugged, kissed and wept. Whole families took pictures of each other posing with Egyptian flags with their mobile phones as bridges over the Nile jammed with throngs more flowing into the square.

Abdul-Rahman Ayyash, an online activist born eight years after Mubarak came to office, said he would be celebrating all night, then remain in the square to ensure the military "won't steal the revolution."

 

Yeah, Mubarak was a dictator. But this revolution was more "Iran 1979" than "America 1776". The Egyptians may have kicked out a brutal dictator, but they may not like who fills the vacuum.

 

Time will tell but I have to say that Egyptians aren't Iranians either. It was a peaceful protest and the only violence seemed to be at the hands of Mubarak’s police forces posing as protesters and posing as military personnel. People certainly died during these protests but I think that the death toll would have been exponentially higher if the military had to put down armed groups.

Democracy seemed to be what the protesters wanted over anything else. I don't think the Muslim Brotherhood has much of a chance to co-opt this movement. The interesting part will be if this spreads to other Middle Eastern Countries. I bet Iran is soiling its undies right about now.

 

It helps that the military was behind the protestors and not the dictator.

 

Now that we've seen the violence inflicted upon the Libyan people by a ruthless dictator, what lesson can we learn? The violence and murder is still ongoing and the outcome is not yet certain. Since you brought up the topic of gun ownership (or the lack thereof) and how it equated to a relatively bloodless coup in Egypt, I'm curious as to your thoughts about the wholesale murder of the populace in Libya. Do you feel that the Libyan people should be stealing guns (or obtaining them by whatever means necessary as they're doing) in order to defend their lives against a murderous dictator OR to use those guns to try to overthrow the same?

 

It's really getting bad in Libya. I hope most Libyan revolutionaries (or for that matter anyone with anti-Ghadafi sentiments) have been able to arm themselves by now because the way it's looking Ghadafi is looking to obliterate anyone who stands in his way. This thing is turning into a terrible bloodbath!

Armed pro-Gadhafi gangs roll in Libyan capital - Yahoo! News

 

The situation in Libya is so bad that the U.S. is deploying warships toward the region:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/01/world/africa/01military.html

Ghadafi is certainly not going quietly (like Mubarak, relatively speaking) and is not above massacring his own people. This situation is looming closer and closer to civil war in Libya. I hope we can stay out of this one, but this isn't going to be another Egypt....

 

View attachment 144
A Libyan rebel shoots towards a burning pro-Moaamar Gadhafi fighter's vehicle



At least 10 anti-Gadhafi fighters were killed and 18 wounded in the battle for Brega, Libya's second- largest petroleum facility, which the opposition has held since last week. Citizen militias flowed in from a nearby city and from the opposition stronghold of Benghazi hours away to reinforce the defense, finally repelling the regime loyalists.

The attack began just after dawn, when several hundred pro-Gadhafi forces in 50 trucks and SUVs mounted with machine guns descended on the port, driving out a small opposition contingent and seizing control of the oil facilities, port and airstrip. But by afternoon, they had lost it all and had retreated to a university campus 5 miles (7 kilometers) away.

Hooray for the rebels using every bit of firepower at their disposal in their attempt to overthrow the ruthless, murderous Ghadafi. I wish the best for them and hope they can obtain more guns in order to defend themselves and overthrow the Ghadafi government. They're fighting for their very lives!!

 

Ooooh yeah....gettin' bad...very bad. Time to drop some bombs, create a little corporate capitalism!

 

It just couldn't stay away......

 

I had almost forgotten how much joy I bring to the mentally disabled, and how much fun it is. I do it all for you and the other right wing hacks. Enjoy!

 

Just to get back to Egypt for a moment what do you guy's think has actualy changed? Well Mubarak has gone his replacement has stepped down and A former transport minister, Essam Sharaf is to replace the prime minister but guess what nothing else has changed the Army remain in control there are still demonstrations and people are still recieving 180 second trials trials and going to Prison for years
This news report was on the BBC last night watch it

BBC News - Egypt's Prime Minister Ahmed Shafiq steps down

They can get back to buisness as normal thanks to Lybia hogging the news

 

Typical,

Once his argument goes up in flames, Moen conveniently disappears!

 

Sorry I haven't live up to your expectations or down to your delusions.

 

Probably not a lot. The guys with the guns were in charge before and they are still in charge. I do hope that they get the kind of Democracy that is hoped for but that depends upon the whims of their military more than anything else. They may just get a different figurehead.

 

Sure you have, you are wrong on this subject, just like sooooo many others. Have a nice day face painter.

 

Uh-oh, it may not be so peaceful in Egypt as some would lead you to believe:

Army beats protesters as it breaks up Egypt rally

CAIRO – Soldiers beat hundreds of protesters with clubs and fired heavy volleys of gunfire into the air in a pre-dawn attack that broke up a demonstration in Cairo's central Tahrir Square, a sign of the increasing tensions between Egypt's ruling military and the country's protest movement.

A force of around 300 soldiers swept into the square around 3 a.m. and waded into a tent camp in the center where protesters had formed a human cordon to protect several army officers who joined their demonstration, witnesses said.
The troops dragged an unknown number of protesters away, throwing them into police trucks.

"I saw women being slapped in the face, women being kicked," cried one female protester, who among around 200 who fled to take refuge in a nearby mosque. Troops surrounded the mosque and heavy gunfire was heard for hours. Protesters in the mosque reported large numbers of injured, including several wounded by gunfire.

The assault came hours after tens of thousands massed in Tahrir Square on Friday in one of the biggest protests in weeks, demanding that the military prosecute ousted president Hosni Mubarak and his family for alleged corruption.

The rally was a show of the increasing impatience and mistrust that many Egyptians feel toward the military, which was handed power when Mubarak was forced out of office on Feb. 11. Some protesters accuse the military leadership of protecting Mubarak — a former military man himself — and more broadly, many are unclear on the army's intentions in the country's transition.

More than in previous protests, chants and banners Friday directly criticized the military's Supreme Council, headed by Defense Minister Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi, a former Mubarak loyalist. At one point, a group of protesters walked behind a contingent of military police in Tahrir, shouting, "The people want the fall of the field marshal," and haranguing the soldiers until they left the square.

A number of army officers in uniform joined the protesters, some of them accusing the Supreme Council of corruption in speeches to the crowd. After dark, hundreds of protesters remained in the square, intending to camp out with the officers. Before the main assault, military police tried several times to move in and detain the officers but were pushed by protesters. At one point, protesters pushed and shoved an army general, tearing his cap from his head.

After the pre-dawn attack, the scene was chaotic. Inside the mosque, families who had camped out in the protest tent searched for children who got lost in the mayhem. Outside, protesters scuffled with soldiers on sidestreets, chanting, "Marshal, tell your soldiers, we aren't leaving."

Outside the Egyptian Museum, near the square, protesters trying to flee the sound of gunfire were blocked by soldiers, who hit them and knocked them to the ground before dragging them away.

"I saw them detain a bunch at the Musuem. They were beating some pretty badly," said one protester, Loai Nagati.

 

Like I said...the guys with the guns were in charge before the revolt and they are still in charge after the revolt.

 

Yet another one of your predictions shot down the tubes. I'm glad no one was listening to you. The "Arab Spring" is now bearing bitter fruit:

Muslim Brotherhood candidate Morsi wins Egyptian presidential election​

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June 24, 2012​

Muslim Brotherhood candidate Mohammed Morsi has won Egypt's presidential runoff, the country's election commission said Sunday.​

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Morsi's supporters, packed into Tahrir Square, were seen celebrating, dancing and waving flags after the result was announced on live television.​

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Some released doves with his pictures over the square where the uprising that ousted Mubarak last year was born. Others set off fireworks.​

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Morsi's spokesman Ahmed Abdel-Attie said words cannot describe the "joy" in this "historic moment."​

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"We got to this moment because of the blood of the martyrs of the revolution," he said. "Egypt will start a new phase in its history."​

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Morsi won by a narrow margin over Ahmed Shafiq, the last prime minister under deposed leader Hosni Mubarak. The commission said Morsi took 51.7 percent of the vote versus 48.3 for Shafiq.​

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Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/06/24/egypt-braces-for-announcement-president/#ixzz1yjCer7eU​

 

Worth reading

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/06/25/uk-egypt-election-idUKBRE85L0JA20120625