Gas prices are up! Where's the outrage?

It's good to hear a pro-capitalist comment from you.

If they're legally able to do all these things, then why shouldn't they take advantage of that ability? Instead of excoriating the oil companies, perhaps we should consider changing the laws so that they're no longer able to do all these things. Come on, if you put a kid in a candy store and let him run free he's going to eat all he wants. In that case, do you blame the kid or the parents?

 

So ethics and social responsibility means nothing? You should be able to get away with whatever you want as long as you can pay off the right people? Why should we Americans tolerate this behavior by politicians or corporations? I thought we owned this country?

As far as the legality of the situation goes, were the banks acting legally when they crashed our economy? Did anyone actually ever go to jail? Many, many laws were broken and no one was held accountable. Neither our politicians or their corporate masters have any intention of following the laws when they are caught red-handed, they simply are never prosecuted. I guess the law is whatever they decide it is.

 

All of this fake outrage is really touching.
It's all just a charade designed to advance the lefts "big business is evil" myth. I want these companies to prosper...the more stable they are the more stable we are. Do I like $4.00/gal gas? Hell no, it takes $80 to fill up my Expedition but gas prices are market driven. I'll cut back when it begins to really hurt. My tolerance is more than some but less than others. When the demand subsides, prices will come down. When BO allows us to harvest our oil sources rather than exist at whim of Middle East shieks, prices will go down. When BO delivers on his promise to provide practical alternatives, gas prices will go down.
If we can get innovative & look at alternative tax systems then the tax breaks & lobbyist influences should be minimized. It's awfully hypocritical to blast the tax structure & loopholes that exist on one hand but refuse to look at the alternatives on the other.

 

If they're legally able to "pay off the right people" then why shouldn't they? I really didn't know that was legal though. And if it's illegal, they should be prosecuted.

Under the Community Reinvestment Act, yes. This policy was a major factor in the economic crash.

If they were acting legally, why would anyone go to jail? For those who didn't follow the law (fraud, embezzlement, etc.) it's a failure on the prosecution's part.

Again, it's a failure on the prosecution's part. Using the analogy of the kid in the candy store, if you tell your kid not to eat any candy, but he does anyway and you just say "well, that's ok", you really haven't enforced the rule. At that point, I think the kid's going to all the candy he wants.

 

I think that statement right there most clearly demonstrates the difference between you and me.

With enough money in the right pockets, anything is legal in your opinion. Why do we even need a Constitution when all we really need is people with enough cash to bribe the right people to get what they want? You would absolutely flourish in a banana republic like Cuba. Graft is standard practice and widely accepted. You have a much different view of democracy that I do.

 

There's a difference between what is legally right and what is ethically right. I'm not talking about ethics, I'm talking about legality. You're mistaking what is legal (lobbying, tax loopholes, etc.) with what is illegal (bribery, graft, etc.). If you don't want companies to take advantage of everything within the law, make those things illegal.

If you'll note, I didn't say "If they're able to pay off...", I said "If they're legally able to pay off...". It may not be ethical, but it's legal. If you don't want them to be able to legally pay off the right people, make it illegal.

The difference in our view of democracy is that you believe in a socialist democracy whereas I believe in a capitalist democracy.

 

I guess, dr moen, you would defend the way your university profits & prospers? You charge way more for the same product a student could get elsewhere but you market itas something much more than it really is. Times are tough but you keep raising your prices. You continue to justify the exorbinant wages & perks paid to your upper management. When the product you sell verges on being unaffordable to most people, do you reduce your price to accomodate the customer or do promote "new methods" of payment by making credit (the noose of student loan debt) easier to obtain while at the same time dismissing the long term effect student loan debt has on a family?
Be careful what you rail against (and, particularly, how you justify it) because your industry is as dirty as any of them.
......and before you accuse me of not knowing of what I speak or being anti-education, please remember that I earned my under grad degree at a state university & my MBA from one of your beloved prestigious, private schools!

 

.....and, dr moen, you never did give us the status update on that alternative power project that BO spent billions on last year- remember the one I'm talking about? You posted it as proof that BO was doing something, I guess?

 

Ahhh! Splitting those hairs again I see. Capitalism has nothing to do with democracy. It is an economic model not a political model. You believe in the elitist rights of the robber barons while I believe in workers rights. If that is Socialism to you, I accept your label wholeheartedly.

 

No, dr moen, you are wrong again (imagine that, huh?). Contrary to your philosophy, both the company & the workers can have their rights. It isn't a case that if one side wins the other side automatically loses, as you would have us believe.

 

You know absolutely nothing as usual and prefer to talk out of your A$$ instead. Universities are state institutions that receive less and less state financial support every year. The majority of Universities have had to cut wages every year over the past 3 years due to budget constraints. They have had to fire tenured professors and double up class sizes. All while enrollments have been dropping due to the economy and while people are finding it harder and harder to come up with any tuition.
We are continually asked to do more with less. We didn't even receive the miniscule state contribution from last year. Zero, that is the state support this state organization received from the state last year and we aren't likely to receive one this year either. The lucky university employees are the ones who have simply not had even a cost of living raise in the last 3 years.
State schools have absolutely nothing to do with private schools that generally charge 2 to 3 times what a state school charges for tuition. Separate entities completely! Lumping us all together merely demonstrates more of your ignorance. I took a 50% pay cut to work here when I left the private sector. What is your definition of "exorbinant wages"?

 

Tell the public worker in Wisconsin that.

 

I should have made it clearer in order that you would understand. You believe in socialism within a democracy and I believe in capitalism within a democracy. I believe in the rights of a free-market system wherein everyone has an equal opportunity while you believe in the rights of an all-encompassing governing power which limits the potential of the individual. If that is Capitalism to you, I accept the label.

 

The public workers in Wisconsin are also taxpayers. So it's really a win/win situation for them.

 

Again, tell the public worker of Wisconsin that. I'm sure the blank stare of amazement you get back from them will reassure you that it was a win-win as you say.

 

So bribing politicians because it is "legal" is now the new standard for everyone having equal opportunity eh? Captialism worked in this country with a heck of a lot of government oversight and regulation. It worked when the wealthy actually paid taxes. Your problem is the same problem many Republicans have, you are blinded by what was to currently what is. Capitalism is failing this country right now. It's failing to employ the workers in greater and greater numbers. It's failing to provide adequate health care for 10's of millions of people. It's failing to to lift up the lives of hard working people. Time for a new model.

 

This is the only way BO was able to get Obamacare passed, right? Now what?

 

Just so I understand....You aren't really disagreeing with what I said but rather you are justifying it? Your reply sounds like the school is simply facing the exact same thing every other business and household is facing yet you have the safety net of public funding. Is your school tax exempt? Have you reduced tuition, books, housing or meals to help out the struggling students?

 

Just because something is legal, doesnt mean you should do it. The was this factory in NYC at the turn of the century. Clothing I think. All women employees. The factory owner would lock the doors while the women work. Now this was legal to do. Well a fire broke out and alot of the women died of smoke inhalation. Then it became illegal to lock the doors on employees. Now you see that now one sees that now and says, ''Yeah, that makes sense.''. Maybe even you say it. But had you lived in NYC prior to that fire and knew that the factory owner locked the door during business. You would say. ''Well its perfectly legal, so whats the complaint?''.

 

Good analogy. And before that the Romans used to chain their slaves to the oars on their triremes and quinquiremes. They found it gave them a little more reason to row hard. That might even be a little better analogy.