Gas prices are up! Where's the outrage?

Your gas prices are subsidized too my friend. Well maybe subsidized is the wrong term but they are kept artificially low by the government because while most countries have a high tax on gas, we have about an 18 cents a gallon federal tax. And while many other countries use the tax to pay for public transportation, roads, and bridges, we shift those taxes to other areas to keep gas cheaper. Essentially, we are subsidizing the oil companies both through tax breaks and through highly affordable gas prices. So Socialism is really in the eye of the beholder whether it is Chavez in Venezuela keeping gas at 6 cents a gallon or your current elected officials paying off the oil companies.

 

There are complicated issues keeping the price of oil at an elevated level and, conversely, there are complicated issues keeping U.S. gasoline at a (relatively speaking) lower level. It just simply amazes me that there are so many dumb liberals who don't understand the issues, but rush to judgment against one president while at the same time giving another president a pass.

The only thing I can figure is that these clowns said these things for political reasons:

THEN-SEN. HILLARY CLINTON: Elect Democrats in November, if you don't like these outrageous gas prices, if you feel that the oil companies have been given a free ride by the president and the vice president, vote for Democrats who will vote for changes in our energy policy.

NANCY PELOSI: The price of oil is at the doorstep; $4-plus per gallon for oil is attributed to two oilmen in the White House and their protectors in the United States Senate.

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER: If George Bush hadn't got his way about this when he first took office, the price would not be $3 a gallon but $2 a gallon, or a $1.80, or $1.50.

For instance, the quote by Hillary Clinton. Did she really want people to believe that oil companies were going to receive LESS tax breaks under a Democratic regime? And, if so, how would making the oil companies pay more possibly lower our gas prices? Did Nancy Pelosi honestly believe that the price of oil was controlled by Bush and Cheney? Has she never heard of the Percentage Depletion Allowance, the Nonconventional Fuel Production Credit or the Enhanced Oil Recovery Credit? She can't be THAT stupid! Well, maybe she can... And what in the world is Chuck Schumer talking about when he says if "Bush hadn't gotten his way...?" Again, perhaps he thinks Bush was controlling the price of oil.

It's not just the politicians who are dumbfounded about the price of oil. It's also the man-in-the-street. When the price of gas started rising during the Bush administration, many people rushed to judgment and blamed Bush as if he really had much to do with the price of oil. I think their outrage was based on their political leanings more than anything and they were using the price of gas as a vent for their frustration. But, gas is rising again during the Obama administration, however people don't seem as outraged. I doubt the common man knows all the intricacies of the inner workings of the price of oil, tax breaks, subsidies, etc between the federal government and the oil companies. They only care about what it costs to fill their tank. That's their focus. And it is, perhaps, rightfully so. But, it amazes me that people rushed to judgment about Bush and the rising price of oil, but somehow give Obama a pass. When it comes down to it, most folks don't know all the reasons that oil prices rise or fall. They're just happy when the price is low and outraged when the price is high. Now, when I started this thread, I witnessed very few instances of outrage about the price of gas. However, now that it's been a while, I've noticed quite a few people getting more upset about the rising prices. Sometimes I'll hear at the pump, "That damned Obama" or "F*ck Obama, gas it too high".

Obama is no more at fault than was Bush concerning high gas prices. But, try to convince the Average Joe that. I am starting to witness more outrage, however (due or undue)...

 

I fail to see the relationship between tax breaks for the oil industry and low gas prices. Maybe you could explain that relationship to me. However, I do see the relationship between tax breaks for the oil industry and the oil industry's history of record profits. And I'll be happy to explain that relationship. You simply have to look at the last 10 years. Gas has been expensive and really expensive. The tax breaks have been in place the entire time. The only thing that has risen as fast as gas prices is the oil indusry's profits. If you want to see this in simple math terms:

Tax Breaks + Record Profits = High Gas Prices

 

You would not care to back up these astronomical profit margins, would you?

 

The last time I was interested, Exxon-Mobil Showed a profit of 19 billion in 2009. Profit. Maybe to someone like you thats chump change. But to most its alot. And no one here said astronomical.

 

May I ask how much profit you would like them to make? Please give us a figure.

 

Problem is I did not ask for the profit. I asked for the profit margin. With all you business expertise, I am sure you know the difference.

 

So you dont mind paying four bucks a gallon? My profit has nothing to do with what the subject is. A member asked for figures of these so called ''astronomical'' profits. All I said was that 19 bill. is alot. It isnt alot to you? Gouging doesnt bother you? If speculators controlled beef, would you complain about paying 45 dollars for a steak? I dont own a business so I cant honestly answer your question. Heres a heads up tho, coin. Unlike you,I'm not here for the money. Money never meant much to me. Maybe because I've never been without it. Cant really say. If I owned an oil company. Maybe I'd just say F it, they gotta but it to get around. Make it 22 dollars a gal. I mean according to you, thats the American way right?

 

You still haven't answered my question, you've just skirted the issue. I asked what amount of profit you'd think is reasonable. You said "$19 Billion" was a lot of profit so I asked what you would consider to be a reasonable figure instead. You still haven't answered the question. Regardless, who said I'm "just here for the money"? I don't have any idea what you're talking about (between you and me, I guess that makes two of us).

Also, do you enjoy putting words in people's mouths? You stated, "According to you [me], that's the American Way". I don't know what in the hell you're referring to (similar to your "just here for the money" comment). When have I ever associated anything with being the "American Way"? Please define the "American Way".

 

Again, I said nothing about ''astronomical'' profits. I asked for what their profit margins were. If you are bright enough to figure out just why I want the profit margin, you might have a clue why that is the useful figure and their profit is meaningless.

 

I dont care how much they make. I cant give you an answer because it doesnt matter to me. I read you comment incorrectly. I thought you asked me how much profit would I like to make. Yes according to you. Because you seem to be defending them.(the oil companies). How much would I like them to make. How about enough so as to not make themselves look greedy? Thats it. Thats my answer. or if you want a figure. Half of 19 billion. I'm not here for the money. It means I'm here for something grander.(But then again that was because I misread your post). How bout you? How much would you like to see them make?

 

This is you isnt it? That word starting with a is astronomical isnt it?

 

Yes I believe that 19 bil.is the profit after the net. I wasnt talking about revenue.

 

TSK! TSK! TSK! I guess I am way over your head. Sorry!

 

Actually its the profit margin that is meaningless.

 

Good, so you don't care if it's $19B or 19T (or more).

I'm not defending them and I'm not persecuting them. I'm simply asking you a "Devil's Advocate" question. You're still putting words in my mouth when you say, "According to you". I've said no such thing.

Wait a minute, you're contradicting yourself. First, you say that you don't care how much they make and that you can't give an answer because it doesn't matter to you. Then you quote a figure of half of $19B ($9.5B). So, you want the oil companies to make $9.5B profit. I presume you've somehow come up with that figure after calculating costs of equipment, salaries, benefits, lawsuits, research, development, land purchase (or lease), advertising, distribution, taxes, etc. Well, OK, if that's your answer I guess it will have to do.

I won't beat around the bush and I'll tell you exactly what I think they should make. They should make as much as they can. In a capitalist, free-market system they're allowed to make as much profit as they can possibly rake in. After all their costs, their profit can be $1 or $300 quadrillion dollars. I don't care. If people are willing to buy their products and pay their prices, who am I to tell them they can't make as much profit as they want?

 

Now I know it is over your head. You do not have the foggiest what you are saying.

 

You just described the American way. But you didnt answer my question. Although I wont harp on it like you do. You dont mind paying four dollars a gallon? I mean you said you dont care. Its right up there. At what amount per gallon do you start to care? And is oil really the kind of product a society of today can do without? No pun intended, but they kind of have us over a barrel. Its not the same as jewelry is it?

 

See the problem with you is you are confusing profit margin with markup. Perhaps in an investors point of view a profit margin would have some meaning. With a profit of 19b the profit margin would be much higher

 

You can ask me and I couldn't care less how much they make in profits. It’s how they make those profits that bother me. Do they rape the environment, do they lobby congress with boat loads of cash so that they can pay zero in taxes on all those billions, do they make us dependent on their produce by suppressing alternatives while receiving government subsidies?

These are questions you should be asking not the rhetorical drivel that passes for intellectualism in the Right.