What religion were you born into and are you glad that you are of that faith?

I don't know, but I do. It's not for me to know the mind of God. I can only hope that I can do right in my belief and enter God's Kingdom as my reward when I fall asleep in the Lord. Heaven knows that having faith in a benevolent afterlife helps me endure this life.

 

I'm sorry but I really don't understand why a god would do this to his creation. Leave his people in doubt, leave them to hope and struggle... about choices that will decide their fate for eternity. That no matter how hard they try or how honest their choices that they might be wrong.

 

It's all right, Takiji. You don't have to believe. I believe and that's enough for me. I consider the Catholic/EOC faith to be much more kind to believers than some other faiths--I don't have to live many lives to be granted a reward, if that's what I get. One and done. In any case, I'd rather believe and be wrong instead of not believing and being wrong.

 

You can't turn belief on and off like a light

 

I think it's more a case of one gravitating toward a generally like-minded group.

 

I'm a little hesitant about answering the question of what religion I was born into. The reason is that I no more belong to it. I'm now an atheist. I'm afraid that by revealing the religion I was born into, I'll be hinting that there's something about that religion specifically that made me an atheist. But that is not the case.

Now that's out of the way, I can go ahead and say that I was born into a Muslim family. The religion of my family is actually a minority sect in Islam. As most of you probably know, in Islam there are two streams: Sunni -- the main orthodox stream; and Shia -- the minority unorthodox sect. My family belongs to the Shia sect. They are followers of the Agakhan, to be even more specific.

I left all this behind through my philosophical search. Just to show that it was nothing particularly against the Ismailis (that's the name the believers are known as), I did spend quite a few years trying out other religions. I did this without officially subscribing to any of them, mind you. I simply studied the works on my own. I went through Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity.

The conclusion was that no religion was satisfactory. So I am now an atheist. But I do not wish to put down any religion by implication.

 

I wouldn't worry about what other people think about your situation Karim... it's your business and you have the right to it. That said, I'm not actually participating in the discussion in this thread, since I can't relate to it personally, but wanted to extend my welcome to you just the same.

 

I agree--I'm not sure if this is aimed at me, but I just wanted to say that if I had become a Fundamentalist Southern Baptist and then thought of converting back to the RCC, you might have a point. However, the RCC and the EOC consider themselves in communion with each other under certain/special circumstances. That is, if I am traveling and I am not near an EOC, then I can get permission from my pastor to ask an RC priest to give me communion if I go to Mass. Generally, I wouldn't do that, but if I were going to be away from home for several weeks, I might consider it. The major differences between the churches are the Filioque and the species of communion, although the EOC also permits married clergy, has slightly different vestments, and uses a different Liturgy than the RCC. However, the new Missal restores some of the old language that is more similar to the EOC Liturgy. It's not a matter of turning belief on and off as much as it is, again, the form of worship that I feel more comfortable with.

Also, welcome Karim! I am sorry that you could not find a faith for yourself, but you need to do whatever works for you. Maybe if you feel prepared to do so in the future, you can actually visit some of the places you've read about. Sometimes (most of the time?!) philosophical or doctrinal literature can read quite dry!

 

Want to make the disclaimer here that I'm not interested in trying to talk anyone into or out of anything in terms of religion, belief, faith, whatever. I'm just trying to understand the personal reasoning behind it all. And to be clear, I don't think that a god or gods don't exist. I've just seen nothing to make me believe that they do. As someone, I forget who, said... We are all atheists. I just disbelieve in one more deity than you do.

 

My thanks to all who've welcomed me and accepted my comment in a positive light. I don't know if this is the right place to say this, but for anyone who's been born into a religion, and then had to struggle their way out of it, you must be familiar with that "hole" within yourself. I think this term was used by Freud to describe the emptiness that results from the loss of faith.

My exit from religion hasn't been a straightforward course. There's been a lot of swaying back and forth. I would still be see-sawing if it hadn't been for the fact that I realized my vacillation was affecting my childeren. I had to finally make a clean cut, and try and make a life as a confirmed atheist.

Having said this, I yet try not to forget that numerous people, having been born into a religion, and going through a rebellious period, leave their faith, but do end up returning to it towards the end of their lives, when they feel the darkness closing in on them. I'm wondering if I'll have the strength to maintain my stand to the very end.

Sorry for going on at such length. I just thought this might help those who ever experience difficulties with their faith.

 

I started out as a Southern Baptist. After that I was Wiccan, Pagan, Taoist, Buddhist, Universalist and couple other ists along the way. I am now an unrepentant atheist. When I think about all the time I spent trying to convince myself that there just had to be some kind of god force It makes me angry. Years of doubt which remained no matter how much time I prayed, meditates, fasted and/or tried to turn off my rational mind. Finally, I realized that the reason I couldn't find anything was because there wasn't anything. Being an atheist is to peaceful compared to all that worrying.

 

Hear,hear!

 

You can't force faith if it is not there. However, I want to point out that 1) not everyone who has a religion is irrational and 2) some people find peace in their faith. I hope that you will both be as respectful to people who have faith as we were to Karim and not turn this into a religion-bashing thread.

 

HollysMom,

Please forgive me if I came across as a religion-bashing atheist. My comment of "hear, hear" to DeeNeely's post was in sympathy to the journey I myself have been traveling. It's not an easy one, let me assure you. There are times when I envy the peace of mind that believers enjoy. This outward struggle from belief to atheism is almost a masochism, if you really come to think of it. After all, logically speaking, if there really is nothing at the end (at least for atheists there definitely is nothing to look forward to) then why go through the pain and anxiety? Why not just relax and stay within the faith?

These are questions I, at least, face all the time. So when I read of someone like DeeNeely finding peace at the end of the struggle, I can only share in the happiness. (It could be my comment was made in envy of DeeNeely's peace.)

I repeat, please forgive me if I hurt anyone's feelings. I'd like to remain a member of this site because I love discussions. Perhaps this one got a bit too sensitive. I hope other discussions will be less so.

Karim

 

For me, it isn't whether you are religious or not. It is what you do with it. Far too many people from both sides use their approach as a sledgehammer. As long as you don't use it to excuse discrimination or to argue against science I don't care what your belief is.

 

Karim, I'm sure you've heard this saying: "Be true to yourself" and although that may not be the most helpful to you right now, someday it may mean a lot. I realize you're having difficulty coming to terms with what the right thing to do is. Right now my advice is to take a deep breath and relax a bit... and realize it's ok to feel the way you do. You already know what the right decision is for you and your family and have already taken the biggest steps. You're issue is accepting it, and that takes time.

Relax. Smile. Share some happiness with you family. Let go of that anxiety and enjoy the life you have, no matter it's difficulties.

 

Then let's not make this thread into one of those threads, okay? (PS, I'll argue against science all I want, if I feel the point is valid. However, I'm one of those who think that "Let there be light" is pretty much equivalent to the Big Bang theory. What of it?)

Completely agreed. Having faith is not the same as oppression; neither is not having faith equivalent to complete freedom. Without peace within yourself, life is not worth living, whether you have faith or not. Karim, as any of us, needs to do exactly what he needs to do to make his life livable. If that means not forcing himself to find a faith, that's fine. All I would ask of Karim, or anyone, is that he (or anyone) not reject faith if it finds him or mock others for having found theirs.

Karim, as much as I appreciate your beautiful apology--it's not necessary. All is good between us and I understood your support for DeeNeely's peace. Her peace is what we all can strive for, faith or not. You've found the road you need to walk right now and I respect that. But did you know that even among those firmly ensconced in their beliefs that almost every person has, at one time or another, a spiritual crisis? What you are going through is not uncommon and I'm sure you will find a positive resolution that is right for you--no matter what that resolution might be. Good luck to you in having peace as you walk that road; it sounds as if you're still having struggles and I hate to see that kind of suffering in people.

 

I really have to disagree with this part of your comment:

...the struggle to be at peace is part of life, it helps define what it means to live.

 

I see your point, but futile struggle is damaging to the will to live. It's what causes major depression and other mental illness. I think you need to have certain amounts of struggle to feel as if you've attained something--would my future degree mean as much to me if it were just given to me?--but a person has to be able to have some peace, someplace, to feel that life is not *just* struggle.

 

In the end the struggle is futile anyway. Any enjoyment or escape from the cycle of entropy is purely temporary. The vast majority of the universe in inimical towards life. It is either too hot, too cold, too much pressure, not enough pressure. filled with toxic gases and the rest is incredibly empty. We like the illusion, but the universe is toxic towards life.