Cali will vote to legzlize it!

There's the difference between our thinking, I think. You want them arrested just for the act of smoking pot. And I don't really care what they are doing as long as what they are doing doesn't infringe upon my (or someone else's) rights and liberties or put me (or someone else) in harms way.

And, if it does infringes upon my (or someone else's) rights and liberties or puts me (or someone else) in harm's way - like robbing or driving under the influence, smoking it on my property, etc - there is probably a law against it already that covers that.

I can't see that someone else smoking pot, by itself, infringes upon my rights or liberties or causes me any harm.

 

You misunderstand my stance. Let me clarify.
I could care less whether someone smokes pot and eats all the popcorn, fudge, and cheese puffs on the planet. So long as I, nor members of my family, are subjected to it's smell, it''s inherent crowd of burnouts, or be able to see burnouts sucking on a bong, pipe, or other drug paraphanelia that I would need to explain to my son. IMO, it's reflects a degenerate society that I do not wish to be any part of, nor wish to witness live. Pot, in and of itself. Hey, knock yourself out. Just do it in the shadows with the mainliners.

 

I really don't think I misunderstand your stance. I think you don't like people doing it and you don't want to see people doing it and you think it is degenerate so you want it illegal. Similar to other people who want to legislate things they don't like...such as the gay marriage opponents. They don't want to see it, think it is degenerate, don't want to explain it to their kids, etc.

I don't like pot either (neither do I like homosexuality, cigarettes, cigars, gambling, pipes, drunks, etc). But if it doesn't hurt me, I don't want it illegal just because I don't like it.

 

If my kid sees idiots smoking pot, laughing at trees, and otherwise being a nuisance, my kid might, at some point, think that it's cool and he may want to try it. That would hurt me. Same way someone dropping their pants and "flashing" their genitalia in public. That's the reason THAT is illegal. Same premise. Stupid, irresponsible, and currently ILLEGAL behavior.

One wants to walk around high all day..who cares? You have the right to be stupid. Just don't expose your illicit behavior to me or mine. Smoke your brains out.

 

So if he sees people drinking or smoking cigarettes or sees a transvestite walking down the street or sees a casino or sees whatever else other people don't like, that is different? Let's just keep outlawing things that you, I and everyone else doesn't like until we cover them all.

 

I guess you can guarantee me that I won't smell it either. Second hand smoke causes cancer yet nitwits often don't think twice about blowing it in your direction. Why would you have the right to expel that nasty, unhealthy, cancer causing gas in my direction? That's one issue. Maybe they legalize THC pills so I don't have to smell it and the idiot taking them could knock themselves out (literally). Society defines the rules. You let the potheads deliver the rules, society becomes as stupid as they are.

 

So using your logic, it'd be ok to butt slam your brother on a park bench. After all, they're not hurting anybody.

 

Ahhh. The 'Yuck' factor. lol Does the government really have the right to outlaw something just because it is considered 'yucky'?

Of course, it isn't really just 'yuck' in the case of public sex. There is a fairly obvious public health concern with public sexual activity, I would think. Same as defecating or urinating in public. Or spraying blood for those 'cutters' out there. Even spitting, really. I think sneezing would get a pass since it is an involuntary act.

Now, if you want to argue against pot smoking because of second hand smoke as a health concern (to others), then yes, I might agree. But, of course, that is only in public, only for health concerns of others and not outlawing it just because one doesn't like it, doesn't want to see it, it is 'yucky' or degenerate, etc. And, of course, then you have to then get into cigarette banning, cigar banning, pipe banning, etc too. But, again, only in public places.

 

Yuk factor...whatever. Hey, you could alleviate the public health factor if that's your premise. Have them wrapped in plastic and use sanitizer and clean the benches when they're through.
I was thinking more along the offensive moral exhibition of the activity though. That being my point with pot or any other illegal activity. Making it legal doesn't dispense of the moral implications, and yes, sometimes morons need help with moraliity in the form of law.
Actually they do outlaw smoking in public places where I'm from, as it ought to be because it stinks and gives you cancer, which smokers have NO RIGHT to pass on to others.

 

Ok kids this is a difficult subject for many reasons. I'm going to toss in a few of my thoughts.

Reason for legalizing it. TAXES of course. YES, make some money from it because like it or not people are going to do it.

My biggest concern actually IS juveniles getting it "legally" but guess what? - they now get it "illegally" so what's the difference?

It could lead to harder drugs. Of course it could for the really weak minded that will follow that path anyway be it legal or illegal.

I'm going to let you all in on a little secret. I used to smoke pot. GASP!!!
I never stole anything for it. I didn't get into harder drugs. I never vandalized. I never blew my smoke in someone's face and I never laughed at a tree.
Having imbibed legal alcohol and smoked illegal pot I can say alcohol is worse IMHO. I don't smoke pot anymore but it wasn't like I woke up one day and said "man I need to get to rehab". What really happened was I was getting older and it's illegal. I didn't need a joint to get me in jail for a night.
I'll still hoist a beer at home where it bothers nobody but it's legal.

Now let me ask you this Tom. IF pot were legalized do you think "junkies" would start showing up on your front porch toking a doob and blowing smoke in your kid's faces? Seriously, do you?
I mean, does the guy at the corner tavern show up on your doorstep to quaff a few beers then ask to use your bathroom? It's about the same isn't it?

So people get DUIs so why not the same for pot smokers. If you get down to it MOST pot smokers are more responsible in public than drinkers. They tend to smoke at home where no one is affected but themselves.

If it were legalized I can't see Dennys issuing a policy where it's okay to smoke a doob anymore than it's okay to smoke a Marlboro and bring a few beers in with you.

Their would be parameters and for those that chose to ignore them let the law prevail. It's not a paving stone to legalizing heroin and cocaine by any means. It's a reality.

As has been noted earlier the "war on drugs" costs a ton of money and doesn't work too well. Take pot out of the equation. Let the government (I know Socialist) regulate and tax it.

To me that would free up money to possibly battle the REAL drugs. Cocaine would be number one on my list personally. I've seen what crack can do to people. Crystal meth is a close second if not tied.

The pot we have now that has been around for so long vs. the crack and meth isn't even a comparison. The "new" drugs really do scare me.

 

Clembo...the point is that currently it's illegal. I feel with good reason. People who are irresponsible would gravitate to it like a magnet. I have seen exceptions, but the majority of people I have seen used pot are usually very disturbed/strange people (who are probably strange without the pot) and pot does nothing positive other than provide the temporary 'smokescreen' and escape from reality the user seeks to begin with. IMO, weak minded individuals that have a problem with reality, and pot only encourages them to further abandon reality. You want to compare it to alcohol, that's fine. I've consumed more than my share of booze throughout my life. I don't anymore, mainly because it would kill me in short order, and I've passed through a pot cloud or two throughout the years as well. The two are vastly different. One is no better than the other though. The only argument I'd use is that alcohol is and has been legal for some time now. Is one more dangerous than the other? I guess it depends on the individual. Neither are beneficial though. Would someone come up to my door and ask to use the bathroom after pounding down a twelve pack? In MY old neighborhood, that would be the best that could happen. Depends on various factors of the environment.
I can say, without difficulty, that people who need to "burn one", based on my life's experiences witnessing such individuals, that pot is for burnouts with mental issues or personality disorders. I've witnessed little evidence of anything warranting the legalization of it other than some supposed financial gain for the state. It would only further encourage the dregs of our society to fly loud and proud. I see no moral or social benefit from it.

 

And because you see no moral or social benefit, it should be illegal. You are in charge or what is morally and socially acceptable in this country. You act as if anyone who smokes pot is a complete waste and a burden to society. I didn't like Bill Clinton either, but I wouldn't classify him as a burnout, weak minded, disturbed, or strange.

Earlier in this thread you compared it to a deviant behavior such as exposing yourself in public. You really are the expert at spin on this forum. You use your children as the moral shield to justify the illegality of marijuana. Oh no, not the poor little children who will be corrupted and forced to smoke the evil plant. Guess what Tom, you want to ensure your children will want to try marijuana at some point in their life, tell them they can't smoke it.

The crux of this issue has nothing to do with morality, it has to do with money. We are wasting billions of dollars fighting a war on drugs in which victory is unattainable. Making drugs illegal does not stop people from using them, it only ensures a large criminal enterprise will form in order to distribute them. The majority of the violence in this country is caused by the war on drugs and the criminals responsible for drug trafficking, not because of the drug users. If you make sports gambling legal, the mob is no longer needed to run the booking houses. Likewise, you make drugs legal, you put the drug dealers out of business and the entire criminal enterprise vanishes from our society. Not to mention that the government collects all of the revenues from the sale of the drugs.

But you are worried that a stoner is going to find your kid, blow smoke into his face, and cause him to drop his pants in public. Give us a break.

 

Tom what exactly was the good reasoning for making it illigal? I will refer you to my earlier post on the subject if you need guidence

 

It's a standard DeOrc. You can make everything everyone wants and likes to do individually completely legal, or you can impose standards that lead to a more coherent society.
Some of the same reasoning that applies to people being required to wear clothes, or being required not to smoke around people that don't smoke. If you don't see the need to restrict cancer causing agents to yourself, then certainly you wouldn't mind if I blow some gas very loudly while sitting next to you at a youth ballgame or next to you at the movies theater, or a restaurant every couple minutes. Some good, loud, wet and smelly ones. It's no different except we know second hand smoke gives you cancer in addition to smelling bad. Some people need to be told what they can't do because they're either too stupid, inconsiderate or just plain ignorant of what is acceptable and what isn't. I recently went to see a musical performance and had to smell that s*** everywhere. I shouldn't have to any more than I should have to smell flatulence. You need to draw a line somewhere, and pot has more negatives than positives IMO. I don't ever recall seeing a burnout and say, 'Wow..he's really changed for the better since he started smoking pot.' Rather the opposite. Society doesn't need to make legal something just because people want it and will do it anyway. Why not take a crap in a cab if you can cover your butt and put it directly into a bag and don't get any on the seat? Hey...why not make prostitution legal? Nothing wrong with a hooker asking your eight year old if he'd like a **** job in McDonalds, is there?
If you want to say that the comparisons to the examples I sighted aren't really the same thing...ok..that's debatable (to a degree), but the point is...somebody somewhere has to decide what's right and what's wrong. That's where laws come into play. You want to live in a lawless society? I don't, and a lot people aren't generally real smart these days, and I don't want them deciding when I should breathe in their cancer or their flatulence, or telling me what is ok for me to accept.
You want to be retarded?(not you personally DeOrc) Knock yourself out....somewhere AWAY from society. (perhaps on that island with Sean and Rush)

 

Actualy Tom I asked you what the reasoning was as to why they banned the use of weed it had nothing realy to do with public decency (Wearing clothes etc) but a great deal to do with a very racist perception of the drug and what they though the effects would be on the population as a whole.
Want to talk about Prostitution ok lets talk about the number of porn movies made in the USA and that I believe is legal!! yet it is people been paid for sex?
Drinking kills and leads to many health problems yet the same society says Oh thats ok?
So smoking has finaly been banned in cinemas etc but not in public so you can still get the second hand smoke, nor is it illigal to smoke round those who dont! same goes for the carcnogens shoved out of exhausts all across the planet? Dr hand out mind altering drugs like candy uppers downers sidewayers !! yet because a Dr hands them out thats ok?
To compare farting in public to smoking weed is to be honest stupid.

 

Yes it is a stupid comparison. I was trying to emphasize the distinction some have with, for example, cigarette smoke. To me, farting and cigarette smoke are equally repulsive. It supports my contention that things need to be illegal, because, as you point out, people will smoke anyway often without regard for their fellow man. People blow it out wherever they want regardless of what non smokers think. Many are even offended by and often don't even understand what the big deal is. You don't want to smell farts...I don't want to smell smoke. Same principle.

Porn, prostition is morally wrong. It degrades society. It's legal some places so I guess it's ok? Is your point that we have porn, prostition, and carcinogens spewed from exhausts anyway, so then why limit possibly MORE cancer causing smoke?

I tried to stay out of the whole 'harmful...no it isn't harmful' argument because I considered it irrelevant to the point. You want to huff glue, smoke newspaper, shoot yourself up with rat feces..be my guest. But you can't do it while displaying it for everybody else to have to put up with, whether it's smell, cancer, or simply acting retarded as a result. You need to do it PRIVATELY. Out of sight and in the privacy of your own four enclosed walls with the windows covered, as not to expose your illicit behavior to others.

I can't do anything about pron, or prostitution (because republicans have to get **** to!). My whole point is it needs to be illegal BECAUSE of the MAJORITY of people don't like to smoke pot and do not want to teach their children to smoke pot, the same as I don't want to teach my son how to crap on the sidwalk. I don't know why that's such a hard concept to understand. In my view....it's wrong, immoral, and stupid. If everybody in the world wanted to smoke pot and I was the minority, then I guess I'd have to live with it. But currently...I do not have to do so....legally. I (and the majority or the rest of the population) want to keep it that way.

Do you comprehend my reasoning or have I left something out?

By the way...the race "perception" thing is hogwash. I've known people of all colors that smoke pot, and they're all stupid, regardless of their race.

EDIT: By the way, the northeast (least the part that I'm from) has banned smoking entirely in ANY public place where the "public" assembles. Restaurants (entirely...not just partitioned off and still under the same roof), Casinos (where there is a lot of "public" gathering), or basically ANY indoor public facility. Soon to be the same everywhere (except in the south where they're generally a couple decades behind on everything).

 

Tom,

I have to ask this question even though I've already touched upon it.

Why is it that you think if California made smoking pot legal it would be people lighting up a joint anywhere and everywhere?

I happen to still smoke cigarettes. If I choose to smoke in my house it's my decision. Smoking in public is a different matter. There ARE laws about it here as well.

I can't walk into WalMart smoking a cig. I have no problem with that because it IS rude and inconsiderate.
If I want a smoke at work I go outside between the buildings. If it's -10 outside it's MY choice to go and smoke. I offend NOBODY and pop a mint in my mouth when I go back in the store.

The way you talk about it there would be absolutely NO rules as to where someone could fire up a joint. Seriously man do you really believe that for some reason?
You can't walk down the street drinking a beer can you? Why would it be different with pot?

 

That we can agree on. For the legislating of morality parts...sounds a lot like Sarah Palin (Sean and Rush) and the rest of the far right to me.

 

Clembo,
Are you suggesting that pot be legalized but only in certain non public arenas? Someplace where stoners go to hang out and "burn one"? I'd be cool with that.

 

Clembo...I hope you have body spray in your pocket too because after you smoke you reek of it. Poeple car's smell like crap that smoke in it. Their houses, walls stained. It's in the carpets, furniture. People who smoke don't smell it.
I'm glad you know consider it rude and inconsiderate. My own mother like to have had a s*** fit the first time I told her she couldn't smoke in my house. She thought I was kidding until I made her go outside and freeze her fanny off.
Having said all I've said...I know smokers are in a tough spot. It's been LEGAL all the years past, and the corporate powers lied to sell more addictive cancer causing profit sticks. People are addicted. I get that. Something that was "fashionable" over the years is now recognized for what it is, a cancer that will kill you prematurely. Like I say..people want to justify killing themselves because "that's what they want"...hey..cancer on brother! But leave me out of it.
Remember..it's just giving the people what they want..in this case..cancer, death, and pollution.