the Republicans handled healthcare poorly

Hey Clembo so in your opinion you feel your idea of a strong third party is more attainable than everyone being in agreement not to spend for a day to send a message. It is not my intention to play devils advocate here, I would be happy if in the confines of this forum we could devise a reachable plan to put this country back square on it's feet.As a matter of fact I would get behind it 100% and do my part to get the message to as many of the masses as humanly possible.

Now in order for us to implement this plan, we would need to reeducate the masses while simultaneously funding a third party. Further who would we man for this third party, it would require knowledgeable people that would not be hoodwinked by the other 2 parties.

I am going to leave it there at this point, but am interested in hearing ideas on how we might be able to do this. It very well could be that I misunderstood and that there is a far easier way to accomplish this.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/health/policy/24health.html?_r=1

Looks like I was right


"
in the last week, Democrats have begun to talk openly of using a procedure known as budget reconciliation to pass a health bill in the Senate with a simple majority, assuming no Republican support. To do that, under Senate rules, they would probably need to show that the public plan changed federal spending or revenues and that the effects were not “merely incidental” to the changes in health policy.

Democrats believe they could clear this hurdle by demonstrating that the public plan would save money or cost money.

"

 

Think you got me wrong here Elmo. In essence I'm wishing as much at your are in this scenario.

Not spending for a day leaves no real repercussions because people spend again the next day. Let's put it this way. If EVERYONE decides NOT to buy groceries for a week will they need food next week? Where will they buy it?

I've heard this same plan for gas stations and even Ebay. We need to get gas, we need to eat and we need(?) ebay(?)

My point is if their sales drop for a day or a week they know we'll come back so their sales will balance it out. In the case of gas stations they could easily raise the prices 10 cents a gallon and REALLY make a killing couldn't they.

I have managed a few gas station and truck stops. So you boycott me and EVERY other one for a week. If I'm selling just 10,000 gallons a week and you boycott me I lose the income from 10,000 gallons. Meanwhile, a lot of people are running on fumes.
The next week gallons would increase because people still need gas and if I raise the price at the pump 10 cents we profit an extra $1000 in the long run. Make that at least $2000 because everyone has let their tanks go lower.

The message sent is basically I'm teed off so laugh at me while I make a statement. Sad but true.

Second point: More than one party.

I don't see the masses being reeducated as it were. Most aren't all that educated to begin with.
So why would I want a stronger third or even fourth or fifth party for that matter?

Competition. As it stands businesses and staunch supporters pump their money into two partys. Doesn't matter how much they both may suck at any given time.
Businesses do it for long term greed while supporters tend to do it for greed and being brainwashed.

Give the supporters more choices I say. The more choices the bigger diversity. The more choices people have available the more likely they'll actually start looking for answers.
As in all politics the answers they might see could be outright lies BUT if it puts a dent into the two powers that be would that really be a bad thing? Like they never lie?

Certainly this wouldn't be easy but it's an avenue to be explored.

It's up to the American people in the long run. More options might open more eyes.

 

Clembo I can appreciate your positive attitude, how ever I am sure you can recollect one or two uneducated people becoming so frustrated all they can do is react. AJ was talking of a civil war with no bullets flying. A proverbial civil war one that does not pit brother against brother.

JMO but two major choices dem or rep. has not much made a difference, but you are of the opinion that three, four or five will? The way I see it more than two choices is just going to spread the votes out of the people all ready voting, not generating more. This would only create more of a gray area giving Washington more room to do what they want.

The money thing is a stretch, I see your point. As far as I know those local gas stations and grocery stores are owned by Americans too. If they understood what we were trying to do, we could barter specie money to cover our needs. The mortgage companies would be the biggest challenge, they are in bed so deep with Washington, that would take a miracle.

So that being said there has to be a better answer. Why are we the only ones that see this is a problem, regardless if we come from the right or left? I think it is because so many Americans want their cake, and want to eat it too. We want to be able to live outside our means, but be upset that our government is doing the same thing.

Well I will let all of you think on that for a bit. I still say there is no better country, and no better place to live than these United States.

 

On a slightly different note but still to do with Health care I do think that who ever is in charge of the VA facilities in Miami, Murfreesboro, Tennessee & Augusta Georgia deserves to loose there jobs if what I read in this report is correct!! And please dont try blaming Obama for this one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...ewsletter&wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter

 

Which stimulus? The Bush one for AIG, or the Obama one for the Big 3? And Clembo, politicians manipulating the masses is the outcome of elections. They are the voice of the masses no matter how many parties. To revolt against this process is to say that our system of government isnt working. Clembo I know you didnt speak of revolution. Just saying. I hope there is enough delinquency in this bill that it is soon discarded.

 

You don't like the message, so you attack the messanger? Thats pretty thin there DanR. I'll go one further and add this.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30143

If you link us the the Kos and Huff thats credible tho, correct?

Fact is Pelosi is a roadblock on EVERY issue.

 

"Rep. Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Republican Whip"


human events


Is there a cold war between Cantor and Pelosi? yes
Is (are) cantor (and his minions) unapologetic obstructionist? yes
Did reasonable Republicans have a chance to add their ideas on healthcare? yes
Is Cantor a reasonable republican? no.

The villian in this story is Cantor not Pelosi.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/01/02/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4695981.shtml

Obama is much more open to meeting with republicans than Bush was open to meeting with Dems.

 

this is coming fast and furious and the republicans are being left out in the cold.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/24/democrats-ponder-one-bill_n_267166.html

 

Best possible scenario DanR, the Dems go this alone.....They will own it. Unlike TARP and the " stimulus "

 

Which stimulus ? Bush's for AIG was actually called TARP, or Toxic Asset Relief Program, and received Obamas vote as well as most every Dem.

Obama's Stimulus also received Repo Votes.

Both have failed and the public is pissed, thats why it is so important to let the Dems own entirely the " health care " bill.

The biggest gift the left can give the right is to keep Obama out there talking, and to pass the heath care fiasco without the repos.

 

looks like that is what is happening

 

Wasn't it Jim Demint who said Healthcare Reform would be Obama's Waterloo?

 

If they get the public option you can kiss the republican party goodbye for the next 30 years. Opposing this will spell the end of the republican party (maybe permanently) and in your heart you know that that is a good thing.

 

I'm here with you 100% DanR. Lets lose the Repos and gain a conservative party.

Now , the conservatives (( So called Repo's ) (of today )) can't stop this. I would love to see nothing more than the Repos losing it totally, with the likes of John McCain and Lindsay Graham and that loser gang. Start fresh, start conservative.

I have maybe 30-50 years left to live, I would love to see a fresh party and a conservative one for my kids and my grandkids.


The Dems will commit political suicide if they pass this. Lets the Repos go next and we'll start over. We all will win.

 

It's not a guarantee that it will pass the Senate. House, no problem, but there are enough questions among "Blue Dog" Democrats that it might not happen in the Senate. Remember, with only 59 Democrats (and that assumes Byrd shows up and the entire party votes together - either is unlikely, and both is as likely as a second Dubya presidency), there can be no cloture to a Republican filibuster. If anything is going to get passed, the Dems need about (give or take) 5 Republicans to cross the aisle. Considering that most of the moderate Republicans were ejected last fall, that's highly unlikely.

 

There is always Susan Collins and Olympia Snow to consider, thats about the only 2 that I can think of ( I pray McCain crosses on this, that would spell the end of him ).

The dems need ZERO repo votes to pass this. I am hoping ( assuming it passes ) that the Dems go nuclear and use reconciliation ( which is meant for budget issues ONLY ).

If this fails, it is a Demo problem, not at all anything to do with the Repos.

I would prefer that the Liberals alone pass this bill. Let them own it in its entirety.

 

They need 50 to do a reconciliation passage of this bill and the fancy footwork needed to pull that off is in the works. Olympia Snow is also working to make the reconciliation work. They are looking to allow an exception to the Byrd rule on reconciliation and Snow is on board with that.

 

Now again I might be wrong on this but was not the last reform of your medicare done by President Bush in 2003 when he authorised the paying of prescription fees? So if the Rebublican party wanted to pay this fee why all the uproar about President Obamas ideas?

 

They think that if they can kill the health care movement they will hurt Obama.