Government Healthcare discussion- In depth

I decided to start this thread to try to have an intelligent, educated discussion, for better or worse, to discuss actual details of the healthcare bill.

It's easy to throw around conjecture, so why not dig into it a little bit and see what's there? It's all on Adobe, so unfortunately, if you want to post a section, you will have to type it out yourself in order to copy it here. If nobody wants to do that, I will pick out points on occasion.

We all know, much of it refers to other sections that we don't know what it's talking about and a lot of it is confusing. But some is easily understandable once you continue reading. (Who knows what hidden language is spread throughout?) My main problem is how fast they want to ram it thorough without giving any plain details.

This is so in-depth of a subject that there is no way Obama can do a 1 hour press conference, take a question on the economy, answer a basic question on the bill with rhetoric and generalities, and then move on to the budget deficit, and have any normal person really learn a THING about the bill.
So, we're on our own!!

And here is the first installment: Pg. 30-32

 

Pg. 30
(In addition to the Health Care Commissioner (Czar) )

Sec. 123 Health Benefits Advisory Committee

(a) Establishment.-

(1) In General.- There is established a private-public advisory committe which shall be a panel of medical and other experts to be known as the Health Benefits Advisory Committee to recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced , and premium plans.

(2) Chair.- The Surgeon General shall be a member and the chair of the Health Benefits Advisory Committee.

(3) Membership.- The Health Benefits Advisory Committee shall be composed of the following members, in addition to the Surgeon General:

Pg. 31

(A) 9 members who are not Federal employees or officers and who are appointed by the President.
(B) 9 members who are not Federal employees or officers and who are appointed by the Comptroller General of the U.S. in a manner similar in the manner the Comptroller General appoints members to the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission under Section 1805©) of the Social Security Act.

( C ) Such even number of members (not to exceed 8) who are Federal employees and officers, as the President may appoint.

Such initial appointments shall be made no later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this act.

(4) Terms.- Each member of the HBAC shall serve a 3 year term on the committee, except that the terms of the initial members shall be adjusted in order to provide for a staggered term of appointment for all such members.

(5) Participation.- The membership of the HBAC committee shall at least reflect providers, consumer representatives, employers,

Pg. 32

labor, health insurance issuers, experts in health care financing and delivery, experts in racial and ethnic disparities, experts in care with those for disabilities, representatives of relative government agencies. And at least one practicing physician or other health professional and an expert on children’s health and shall represent a balance among various sectors of the health care system so that no single sector unduly influences the recommendations of such Committee

 

So here it is, laying out the foundation for another large government beuracracy of appointees who will serve relatively short terms and be rewarded with who knows what retirement benefits when they leave. Another committee to appoint buddies and campaign contributors to. Ho-hum.

The president or somebody could spend an hour of tv time explaining details about this committee alone. The general public has no chance of understanding a thousandth of a percent of this bill and neither do the lawmakers.

I find it interesting that we'll have experts (as in plural) on ethnic and racial disparities but only ONE physician, or maybe just a certified health expert instead. The logic is amazing!

Well, that's it for this installment. My computer just bogged down as I type which it never does. Perhaps I got a virus from when I went to the bill's page that is tracking everything I'm typing now. I can't hardly type. The cursor won't keep up. So if the powers that be are tracking this as I type, read this: Rot in hell you ignorant,pathetic, lemming, ba$tards!!

BTW, what's a non-Federal appointee? Who's paying them and what is non-government anymore? Is GM private? Will they be doing these jobs for 3 years for free?

 

"

“The industry has always tried to make Americans think that government-run systems are the worst thing that could possibly happen to them, that if you even consider that you're heading down the slippery slope towards socialism... I think that people who are strong advocates of our health care system remaining as it is, very much a free market health care system, fail to realize that we're really talking about human beings here, and it doesn't work as well as they would like it to... They are trying to make you worry and fear a government bureaucrat being between you and your doctor. What you have now is a corporate bureaucrat between you and your doctor... The public plan would do a lot to keep [health insurance companies] honest, because it would have to offer a standard benefit plan. It would have to operate more efficiently, as does the Medicare program. It would be structured, I’m certain, on a level playing field so that it wouldn’t [have an] unfair advantage [over] the private insurance companies. Because it could be administered more efficiently, the private insurers would have to operate more efficiently.”

"

Wendell Potter

 

Way too top heavy, Surgeon General, and One each in the following fields

labor
health insurance issuers
health care financing
delivery
disabilities
Mental health

More than 1 of these
practicing physician
children’s health

 

Yes and don't forget the Health Care Commissioner at the very top who will in essence be playing God.

Does anyone think these so-called experts in racial and ethnic disparities will be told the illegals can't get care! LOL You're dreaming. These people will ensure that they all get care. The others surely wouldn't speak up against it for fear of being called racists.

 

Do you have an original thought or is everything you post merely someone else's opinion? No wonder Obama is so appealling to you- "birds of a feather..."

 

Ok, in addition to what I've posted, I've skipped over several sections already.

In general, the beginning of the bill describes all the sections of the bill and then goes into some confusing details. The heading of page 16 looks comforting: Protecting the Choice to Keep Current Coverage. But then goes immediately into what's 'grandfathered' (a term I never like to hear) health insurance coverage defined'.

From my understanding, it would appear that private employers who elect to not opt for the public plan, will be heavily scrutinized and there will be a study done by government officials to see if their coverage meets certain standards. If not, you will be required to get on the government run plan.

Page 17 begins talking about Restrictions on Premium Increases which seems to me not much different than government implemented price freezes. But wait, won't this be one of the most expensive programs they've ever implemented???

Then most interestingly on page 19, it goes into Standards for guaranteeing affordable access. PROHIBITING PRE-EXISTING CONDITION EXCLUSIONS.

Basically says no matter what, nobody will be denied for pre-existing conditions. Record scratch! Stop the presses. Ok, I know it seems cruel that the insurance companies do this, but they pay gobs of money to employ individuals to run statistics and figure out who can be covered and who can't. Many get denied. It's a bad thing but it's likely they do this so they can survive! They not only would not make a profit if they abandoned these procedures, they would eventually go under!

But the government is saying they can do this. And they can do this not only insuring workers with no insurance, but also all the poor with no insurance!! Is there any way this can possibly work? I say it's a wonderful fantasy and would wish them the best of luck but c'mon!

Ok, so this thread has VERY quickly, very briefly covered the first 32 pages of 1018. We could debate for weeks over this!!! And Obama wishes this bill was done and passed weeks ago. Simply amazing! Absolutely irresponsible.

 

Danr, do you ever notice that NOTHING is working as well as we'd like it to!?

Americans aren't ready to give up over 50% of their income to the government in order to be taken care of. We're already giving around 30% and any program you can name is bankrupt or going bankrupt!! Look around man!

If the government gets their hands on YET ANOTHER pool of fresh new tax money, it will be stolen from, moved around, re-allocated, and eventually, they will keep manipulating the system so less and less people are covered, just so it can stay afloat but while everyone is still required to pay in the money.
Just like they keep bumping up the age for social security benefits. When they do that, that is enormous amounts of money they are denying people towards the end of their lives. But it is money they paid in their whole lives with a promise.

Eventually they may just say we can't offer any healthcare to anyone anymore but keep paying the money in. It's called slavery.

 

It looked like a cut and paste thread

 

All of that is just extremist rhetoric

 

But no denials?
If Obama's healthcare scheme is so great, why hasn't it breezed through the Democrat held Congress? What do they know that you do not?

 

Obama:

 

You've proven you are defenseless. There's no point in posting your one line comments.

Extremist rhetoric, eh?

Are countries in Europe not paying 50% in taxes?

Is the Federal government running a deficit this year? Yes or no? Is it small? Or over a trillion dollars??

How is Social Security holding up? Medicare? Medicaid? How are state governments doing financially?

Why is Social Security doing bad? Did they re-allocate money out of Social Security to fix budget deficits and pay for other programs? Yes or no? Have they ever raised the age to receive social security to temporarily fix shortfalls, thereby costing millions of people money they were promised to receive?

If you're smart enough to answer those questions correctly, you will see it is hardly rhetoric. The history of this planet is bondage, slavery and oppression. America has managed to be the exception for a mere couple hundred years.

 

Now according to some here any Bill that President Obama wants will be put through without resistance by the Democratic party, yet here we have you saying that the Democrats are not rolling over for him Make your minds up guy's which is it to be?

 

No. It's been asked why are they not rolling over for him? The democrats have this entire mess in their laps. They should be able to get anything passed that they want. But we're fortunate enough that there are still a few moderate democrats left who are still willing to use logic and reason, that it's not happening. If they all thought like their leftwing extremist leader (like we all were saying from the start) the bills would be flying through congress.

No, what's laughable is they're trying to muddy the water by blaming republicans for the hold up trying to keep people's eye off the ball while they try to rally their own behind the smoke screen. Which is quickly becoming a losing battle. 2010 elections are barely a year away. There is a brief window here when the public will have their ear and many will not vote for this bill as it is now over this.

 

The insurance companies are skimming 17% of the US GDP off the top. They do not want to give that up.

 

You are are pretty out there. You are fortunate that you do not have to understand the reforms that Obama is working on to benefit from them.

 

If you want to check out European personal tax rates look here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_of_Europe

Out of 37 countries 7 have a higher earnings rate over 50% another 13 have a rate above 30%, 6 have a corporate tax above 30% with Germany having a more complex one of 15,825 % (federal) plus 14,35 % to 17,5 % (local)

 

Heyyyyyy. Get your own retort. thats what I siad about Midas. Who, by the way, agrees with alot you poost. And he thinks Pershing ordered his troops to bacon wrap thier bullets.