Are we a Christian Nation?

No, not at all, it just so happens that we have a lot of them here:

Lets start with the basics:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Article VI, Section 3
"...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."


Jefferson:

"Be it enacted by the General Assembly, That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."

from the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

The great Thomas Paine

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison


John Adams

"Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, 'this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.'" John Adams

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"

"...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, 'Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,' which was rejected 'By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.'" - Jefferson

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." - Jefferson

"They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition of their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the alter of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." - Jefferson

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." - Jefferson

"In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." - Jefferson

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise" - Madison

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." - Madison

"Denominated a Deist, the reality of which I have never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." - Ethan Allen

"...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist." - Franklin


Ever hear of the Jefferson bible? Well, this smart man decided he likes the morals but he didnt like the fact that it was all muddled up with the supernatural so he decided to take the supernatural out of the bible

In extracting the pure principles which he [jesus] taught, we should have to strip off the artificial vestments in which they have been muffled by priests, who have travestied them into various forms, as instruments of riches and power to themselves. We must dismiss the Platonists and Plotinists, the Stagyrites and Gamalielites, the Eclectics, the Gnostics and Scholastics, their essences and emanations, their logos and demiurges, aeons and daemons, male and female, with a long train of … or, shall I say at once, of nonsense.


It goes on and on...to say the US is a christian country is admitting you do not have a clear grasp of US history and those who founded this nation.

Thanks

 

I cant wait to see what responses you get to this one

 

I am sure it will be greeted with a resounding chorus of agreements all around!!

Sorry, I was listening to hannity today (I dont know why) and he was moaning about Obama (shocker) and how he said America was not a Christian nation...and apparently he thinks our founding fathers meant this nation to be a Christian one...it is very clear they did not want this at all.

 

Interesting read Drusus but I agreed with you in the first place.

I predict either fireworks or crickets chirping or something in between.

 

From what I heard today, I think we are a Muslim nation. Campaign as a Christian, hoodwink, ha ha fooled ya. We are one of the worlds largest Muslim nations?

 

Jack I do hope that this is not in refference to President Obamas speach in Cairo?

 

A wisp of sarcasm here.

 

just a lil bit This thread is going places fast!

If the US is not Christian, it certainly isnt Islamic and reaching out to open dialog with Islamic nations and populations does not mean we are turning islamic...even Bush tiptoes through the tulips and made out with one of the biggest wigs of the islamic world...does that mean we are all muslim now? Hyperbole seldom works as it is very transparent. Anyone with half a brain can see that Obama makes a speech to the Muslim word does not = burkas for all and the US is now Islamic!! Its a dishonest attempt to paint events how you want people to see them with no basis in fact.

Oh, and simply because America is majority Christian in NO WAY makes us a Christian nation...our founding fathers made it very clear that this country was not to have an official religion and that ALL religions were to be equal. There is a big difference between 'majority Christian' and a 'Christian nation'...we were not founded on Christianity and it is glaringly obvious that few of our founders even liked that religion (or any other)...many seemed to downright despise it.

I dont mind Obama reaching out to the Muslim world as long as he doesn't give them a big wet kiss and stroll in the park with them holding hands...If he does...well, the precedence has already been set anyway.

So you Christians who are so sure that the US is a Christian nation and this is what our founding fathers (who most seem to have so much respect for) wanted...give it up and be honest. If you were just uninformed then now you know...if you knew already but still made this false assertion, try a little honesty and just say 'I think our founding fathers were wrong and that the US should be a Christian nation'...nothing wrong with that...they are just human and make mistakes..there are quite a few things I disagree with our founding fathers on....

Lastly, I received an e-mail saying that we were founded on the Judeo-Christian principles. Well, join 90% of the rest of the modern world. Under this assertion, you could call Islam Judeo-Christian as Islam incorporates or directly borrows history from both Judaism and Christianity. In truth, our country was founded by men during a time of a renaissance in philosophy, humanism, and reason...men who saw christianity as being destined to go the way of the Myths of Greece and Rome...why I would venture to say that asserting we are a christian nation is downright unamerican and goes against the principles on which we were founded!!

 

We are not, nor ever have been, a Christian nation. At the time of the War for Independence (it most certainly WAS NOT a revolution), the most religious place in America was New England, and the most secular was the South. Quite the opposite now.

Although I agree with you on the point Drusus, I don't necessarily agree with your deification (pun intended) of Jefferson by the copious use of his quotes. I've always found Jefferson to rather sanctimonious and hypocritical.

 

America is not at all a Christian nation officially, but to guess a 70-75 % Christian populace, we are. What BO failed to mention, is that we are also the worlds #2 Jewish nation. Strictly population of course.
Americas Jewish population is roughly triple the Muslim #'s.......so his pandering is pretty transparent.

I am neither Jewish nor Muslim just to clarify.

 

I'm both. Probably why I get such headaches.

 

LMAO
Yes, that could cause inner turmoil and conflict for sure. Any ever wonder how James Carville and Mary Matlin stay married? That marriage must take some real effort and understanding.

Reminds me of an off color joke, hold on gang, it's not that bad:

A kid comes home from school.

Ask's his dad " Dad, Am I black or Jewish" ?

Dad replies " Son, we have had this talk many times. I am black, you mother is Jewish. You are an even 50-50" " Whats the problem this time son" ?

Well Dad, there is a garage sale down the block, they have a great bicycle for $20........I don't know whether to offer them $10 or just steal it.

 

I know it's Daily Kos but watch the video. I'm betting these were both actually recorded and not dubbed. Kinda makes one wonder what is said and what is "interpreted". Yup, we're a Muslim nation.
Obama said this?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/4/738674/-Sean-Hannitys-complete-break-with-reality

 

Well I watched live feed of President Obamas speach from Cairo and not once did he say that America was a muslim country nor did he apologise for anything in fact it was a bloody good speach, this guy is a joke a very bad and dangerouse joke

 

Well,

Don't leave me hanging here DeOrc. Why?

 

No, we arent...we are a nation with a large Christian population...this does not equate to being a Christian nation at all. We are a nation of Christians, jews, muslims, Buddhists, hindu, atheists and agnostics....and more...

I did quote Jefferson a lot...but he was just one of the more outspoken of our founding fathers on the subject. Most of them held similar views.

 

Youre right. Its not that bad.

 

No, we arent...we are a nation with a large Christian population...this does not equate to being a Christian nation at all. We are a nation of Christians, jews, muslims, Buddhists, hindu, atheists and agnostics....and more...

-Drusus

I would have to say that state and religion are not to be mixed at all, for religion is of no importance when a state is govern, “separation of church and state”. Bush loved to called upon god for everything, as an atheist this looks very sad in my eyes “as did many more of his actions”…. “OH crap nothing is working and I have no clue what’s going on lets call upon or invisible dad to help us”

Bottom line religion is a crutch and should be completely omitted from any form of government. The formula for a deadly brew is government + religion + consensus = intolerance, malicious acts … and many more…

 

UM weryon I did not write that, I have expressed absolutly no opinion as to what the religious nature of America is at all in thei thread.

 

Sorry De Orc , I though it was you but it was Drusus. De Orc kinda looks like Drusus in the eyes of a french Canadian