Socialism Doesnt Work

The Govenrment and congress are to blame going back many presidents and congress ago.
As a fellow citizen you are trapped mentally. Democrat againt Republican. People are fearful of their govenrment.
As Thomas Jefferson said If you fear your government that is tyranny, if they rear you that is liberty. That works for me.
Starting a civil war is not in any one`s best interest.
I did not expect Obama to move the world in a day , but he sure has done a job on our national treasure. He has admitted to that.
The people of this nation say it,
I would suggest you ask him what and where and wait.
Or you can deficate in one hand and hope in the other and see which fills first.
Try thinking past your shoe tops !

 

I'll assume this was aimed at me Pep since I AM the American.

You type many words but make little sense.

For starters I don't think any of us are trapped mentally. We have choices and those that read and study tend to make better ones. I have voted for Dems, Repos and Indys and intend to keep doing so.

As for fear of government I do think you're spot on. Our last administration was the most fearful to me by far.

You obviously love Thomas Jefferson. I concur - a brilliant man no doubt but how well does he carry over after years of political abuse? That sir is truly a shame but it's a reality.

"I did not expect Obama to move the world in a day , but he sure has done a job on our national treasure. He has admitted to that.
The people of this nation say it,"

Exactly who are these people? Yes, there has been a lot of spending and bailout money going out but if you read DeOrcs post some is already coming back in and to me that's a good sign.
Are we seeing any returns on the huge deficit already in place when he took office? Is it his fault we haven't yet?

As for my shoe tops and defication I think well above my shoe tops thank you very much. Those that live in the past it seems dwell in the land of Dr. Scholl's.

Defication? Obama was handed a sack of it and has to switch sides to even the load. Perhaps a yoke and two buckets.
Both hands were loaded when he took office. Now since you know the answers which one should he empty first and on what garden?

 

In life there are options, like change the channel or turn off the radio.
Throwing money at anything that moves is not helping the composure of the American people.
If you do not like the truth, or even what I write you have every Right to disagree , not read it, or not reply.
Politics are like war , deseption.
Yes I know Chicago is not a state , one might think it is though.

Pep

 

Ok so you think it would help the composure of the American people if all companies in trouble were allowed to fail with the subsequent loss of not only jobs but the tax revenue that is raised from those companies and the subsiduries that they service? You are saying that the composure of the American peple will be aided by seeing more and more of there neighbours loosing not only there jobs but there homes with further morgage forclosures?
How many people must be made homeless and jobless and who will become burdens on the goverments welfare scheme to make the American People Happy? Do you have any idea of the cost of covering deposits if the banks are allowed to fail? and you wont recover that outgoing either.
Do you have any idea just how many people you are talking about both directly and indirectly affected by mass closures of buisnesses?
You come out with some wonderful little homilies but have failed to adress a single point I have raised Yep thats right not a single one LOL


PS
You go on about Socialism well let me tell you this you want a perfect breeding ground for real Socialism or Facism then you allow your economy to fail. Try checking history

 

One might also wish it was too. lol

 

Thats the problem with people who are obsessed...they ruin threads and throw them off course because they are always on the topic they are obsessed with.

But back on track...the people I have talked to are all around my age or older (40+)...not that it matters when it comes to those long lines you always hear about that they must wait in...I assume they are either there, or not there...something none of them have confirmed is true. Even if there WERE long lines...I have to wait sometimes as long as an hour when I go. The fact of the matter seems to me...both systems are imperfect...I dont talk to anyone here in America who praises the way our health care is set up...and if you talk to an older person who has high bills for medicine...they want to go to Canada!!

 

I have had zero dollar out of pocket medical care for 20 years. And I can tell you it is a big relief when you have a family and kids. But, I had to make sacrifices to get that kind of benefit. And part of that was financially.

I am just not sure many in our country are willing to make the kind of sacrifices needed to pay for that kind of a benefit for themselves and everyone else. We have and continue to show little to no desire nor any ability to sacrifice much of anything for the things we have already committed to or are planning to commit to in the future. The social programs we already have. The wars we are fighting. The bailouts we have done. Etc. Etc. Etc. So, I really doubt we would sacrifice for health care either.

 

Agreed

Mr . De Orc
I do not owe you and explanation for everything I say.
I do try to be civil.
If we would have left the companies fail, that is capitalism.
If you prop up any thing but the back bone ( Banking) you throw off the entire package designed to keep of very large country solvent.
The money should have been kept to help individauls with
medical and unemployment insurance etc. Now we have neither solvent companies, or money to do the above.
Congress has been given only seventeen powers to use concerning interstate commerece. They have been overstepping those for years. That must be addressed because they have gone way beyond their authority. This is spelled out in our Constitution. I have one in front of me.
We have in turn violated the NAFTA agreement with Mexico
one of the countries who is on the verge of collapse. We did not alter it , it was violated. How do we earn trust from other countries when we act like a banana republic.
We have burned the people out with constant threat of new taxes when they are not working. New taxes during a period like this will hinder the economy .
Here, low taxes mean free spending , it has always worked back to President Kennedy, always. Even with the bush tax cuts.
Our Government is unable to run companies or even work in partnership with another. They always want the bigger share.
I feel for the auto,and their vertical integrated partners.
They made deals that could never be kept.
Because the Predident stepped in and helped banking, everyone else wanted help.It is not possible !
Fannie and Frddie were manipulated and liar loans were the flavor of the day. Barney Frank had a hand in that.
We are in deep trouble and what we do affects the world.
Now the current administration sees the problem from the other end of the bank account.
I am not a zelot, I am a patriot.
I have fought for my country and helped in far away places taking care of Marines ,and put upon civilians alike.I have witnessed the thing no one wishes to see Anarchy.
I love to to see what people have so I will put them to the test.
No Jefferson
"How Victory may be produced for them out of the enemy`s own tactics - that is what the multitude can not understand" Sun Tzu Sixth century B.C. The Art Of War.

 

Fine a lot of what you say (in this post LOL) I have no problem with. just one point I will make you say the money should and I quote The money should have been kept to help individauls with medical and unemployment insurance etc. That is Socialicm

 

Unemployment Insurance

Unemployment insuance is something is taken out of an individuals pay check. It usually lasts for six months depending on the state you live in. It is also part of state disability in CA. No Socialism ,short term only until you can work after being hurt or a company folds.
On medical , we have the best in the world. You pay to insure yourself throgh medicare plus another provider to make a package if you are of retirement age. Some larger companies will give paid health care as part of your renumeration. Dental again is seperate you are self insured
unless you take additional coverage.
We use Kaiser foundation Senior Advantage.
Anyone who is injured or in need of urgent care is treated,even if you are an illegal resident. Many of those are counted as being uninsured.
It taxes our system to the limit because this is never paid back. Hospitals on the Mexican border have closed.
The Federal Government has for quit a while used the tenth Amendment to their own ends; taxing citizens illegally by using states rights. Under the Constitution they are allowed seventeen areas only. This is a major problem as that becomes taxation without representation.
Word retooling , double speak and legalease is over the average persons head.
If we can take away cash flow from congress then they will go , but they will not give up very easy. It will be done but time will tell. It will be legal !
We owe an apology to a lot of countries who dove in to the pool with us. Some are part of the problem,and some just believed we could do no wrong.

" The skillful leader subdues the enemy`s troops without any fighting; he captures their cities without laying seige to them; he overthrows their kindom without lengthy operations in the field ."
Sun Tzu 6th CenturyB.C. The Art of War

Pep
Have to go buy something !

 

And yet you call it Socialism if it happens in a country outside of America!! LOL Over here we have had something called National Insurance contributions (Extra to normal tax) yet you call our healh care Socialist?

Oh look more antics by Obama now he's been right wing and Facist LOL

The Obama administration is expanding a program initiated by President George W. Bush aimed at checking the immigration status of virtually every person booked into local jails. In four years, the measure could result in a tenfold increase in illegal immigrants who have been convicted of crimes and identified for deportation, current and former U.S. officials said.

 

Compare

We have some socialist leanings . Europe calls themselves socialists. Check you rights vs the U.S Constitution !
You know most of this .

 

Yet the majority of Europe is Conservative LOL

THE EUROPEAN CONVENTION ON HUMAN RIGHTS (Just the imprtant bits LOL)

ARTICLE 2
Everyone's right to life shall be protected by law. No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided by law.
Deprivation of life shall not be regarded as inflicted in contravention of this article when it results from the use of force which is no more than absolutely necessary:

ARTICLE 3
No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

ARTICLE 4
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude.
No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour.

ARTICLE 5
Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person.
No one shall be deprived of his liberty save in the following cases and in accordance with a procedure prescribed by law:

ARTICLE 6
In the determination of his civil rights and obligations or of any criminal charge against him, everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law. Judgement shall be pronounced publicly by the press and public may be excluded from all or part of the trial in the interest of morals, public order or national security in a democratic society, where the interests of juveniles or the protection of the private life of the parties so require, or the extent strictly necessary in the opinion of the court in special circumstances where publicity would prejudice the interests of justice.
Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.
Everyone charged with a criminal offence has the following minimum rights:
(a) to be informed promptly, in a language which he understands and in detail, of the nature and cause of the accusation against him;
(b) to have adequate time and the facilities for the preparation of his defence;
(c) to defend himself in person or through legal assistance of his own choosing or, if he has not sufficient means to pay for legal assistance, to be given it free when the interests of justice so require;
(d) to examine or have examined witnesses against him and to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his behalf under the same conditions as witnesses against him;
(e) to have the free assistance of an interpreter if he cannot understand or speak the language used in court.

ARTICLE 7
No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed.
This article shall not prejudice the trial and punishment of any person for any act or omission which, at the time when it was committed, was criminal according the general principles of law recognized by civilized nations.

ARTICLE 8
Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.
There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

ARTICLE 9
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.
Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

ARTICLE 10
Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. this right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.
The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or the rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

ARTICLE 11
Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
No restrictions shall be placed on the exercise of these rights other than such as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. this article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions on the exercise of these rights by members of the armed forces, of the police or of the administration of the State.

ARTICLE 12
Men and women of marriageable age have the right to marry and to found a family, according to the national laws governing the exercise of this right.

ARTICLE 13
Everyone whose rights and freedoms as set forth in this Convention are violated shall have an effective remedy before a national authority notwithstanding that the violation has been committed by persons acting in an official capacity.

ARTICLE 14
The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status.

ARTICLE 15
In time of war or other public emergency threatening the life of the nation any High Contracting Party may take measures derogating from its obligations under this Convention to the extent strictly required by the exigencies of the situation, provided that such measures are not inconsistent with its other obligations under international law.
No derogation from Article 2, except in respect of deaths resulting from lawful acts of war, or from Articles 3, 4 (paragraph 1) and 7 shall be made under this provision.
Any High Contracting Party availing itself of this right of derogation shall keep the Secretary-General of the Council of Europe fully informed of the measures which it has taken and the reasons therefor. It shall also inform the Secretary-General of the Council of Europe when such measures have ceased to operate and the provisions of the Convention are again being fully executed.

ARTICLE 16
Nothing in Articles 10, 11, and 14 shall be regarded as preventing the High Contracting Parties from imposing restrictions on the political activity of aliens.

ARTICLE 17
Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or perform any act aimed at the destruction on any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein or at their limitation to a greater extent than is provided for in the Convention.

ARTICLE 18
The restrictions permitted under this Convention to the said rights and freedoms shall not be applied for any purpose other than those for which they have been prescribed.

I think this stacks up quite well dont you?

 

It seems to cover most of the important bits

 

Too many refereces to "everyone". Like using WE THE PEOPLE over and over.

Bunch of Socialists.

 

Who you calling a Socialist you Capitalist Running Dog

 

That's MR. Capitalist Running Dog to you!

 

And it's the Right Honrable Bunch of Socialists to you, You Cad