Sick and F'n Tired of Obama!

Now on to Gay weddings I coudnt care less about them they are a non topic as far as I am concerned, now that dont mean I support them or dont support them it means I cvoudnt care less wat two consenting adults want to do. Gun control yes I am for it, I have seen what guns can do in the wrong hands and dont like it, I would even advocate the death penalty for anyone caught in possesion of a gun during a crime, and some here have attacked me for that.
The only people I hear complaining about his use of the teleprompter are on this forum not seen a word about it in the world news LOL and lets be hones whats the big problem with it?
Want to show me exactly were Obama has grovled to anyone?

 

Just a question...which "freedom" did the early settlers leave England to practice?

 

I am sure some came for religious freedom and I am also sure some came to America for riches and adventure and others to get away from the tyranny of the Crown or maybe a bad wife or girlfriend. However, none of those people over that about 100 plus year period founded this nation.

The Declaration of Independence is a document declaring freedom from the tyranny of the crown and it is not a document founding a Christian Nation.

And if this nation was founded as a Christian Nation, the Constitution would read greatly different than it does today and we would have religious leaders running the show. The Constitution doesn't even worry about religion until the amendments and then lumps it in as just another freedom with speech, press and the right to protest. Even guns got their own amendment all by themselves.

BTW: Per your post a bit above...You do know it is not a requirement than anyone swear on the bible, right? And not every president has. And, as a matter of fact, one President didn't swear at all, he affirmed.

As I said before, 80-90% of Americans believe in a God and majority of those are Christian. But, that is a long way from saying this is a Christian Nation. We are not the Christian Republic of America and hopefully we never will be.

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

 

Read your history books...religious persecution was the reason

Total speculation on your part

 

Why not fan the flames?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

"Controversies
Two controversies are associated with the Treaty of Tripoli document and its Article 11.


Article 11
The neutrality of this section is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (February 2008)

Article 11 has been a point of contention in disputes on the doctrine of separation of church and state as it applies to the founding principles of the United States.[citation needed]



Article 11 reads:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Advocates of the separation of church and state claim[17] that this text constitutes evidence that the United States Government was not founded on the Christian religion. The Senate's ratification was only the third recorded unanimous vote of 339 taken. The treaty was printed in the Philadelphia Gazette and two New York papers, with no evidence of any public dissent."

This stuff happened a long time ago.

 

Really? So from Jamestown to the Declaration of Independence, people only came to the colonies to escape religious persecution? Me thinks you might want to read a few things.

Not even on the Mayflower, were all the passengers there because of religious persecution. Probably not even half.

And you might want to read the actual Declaration too. Try to take a look at all the words that come after "Creator". It is a list of grievances against the tyranny of the Crown.

PS: You won't see the word "Christian" in it either.

 

Also I think it needs to be pointed out that not all the settlers came from England or even from Britain. I do believe that the Dutch had a rather large colony in a place now called New York, then there were the French and we musnt forget the Spanish. The founding colonies were quite a mix by the time of the declaration of Indipendence.

1564 Fort Caroline, Jacksonville, Florida (French)
1607 Virginia Colony in Jamestown (Brits)
1615 Fort Nassau, on Castle Island in the Hudson (Dutch)
1620 Plymouth Colony (Brits)

In Congress, July 4, 1776.
A Declaration
By the Representatives of the
United states of America,
In general Congress assembled.

When in the course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness—-That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the Present King of Great-Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.

Now I see the word Creator and Nature’s God but I do not see the words Christian anywere, perhaps I am wrong if so please point it out to me

 

Dunno but "God" "Creator", etc is mentioned quite a few times, right? I tend to believe these were fairly religious folks. Reference to God comes pretty early in the Declaration of Independence...religious persecution may not have been the only reason for leaving England but you sure can't argue that it was an impetus. And as far as the Mayflower passengers? I wasn't there so I will have to take your word on the 50/50split, perhaps you have an insigt that no on else deos?

 

Surely they believed in God. Most people do today too. But that is a far cry from being a Christian Nation. They were white too. Does that mean we are a White Nation?

Seriously? No one else does?

I think a lot of people know that the Pilgrims only made up a percentage of the colonists on the Mayflower. You might want to look up Strangers or Saints and Strangers as it relates to the Mayflower. There were like 40 Pilgrims and 60 some people who weren't pilgrims that made up the colonists on the Mayflower. The immediate Pilgrim/non-Pilgrim conflict after the landing was part of what led to the Mayflower Compact.

 

I believe the Captain of the Mayflower wasnt a separatist. Just a guy looking to get paid. He wasnt escaping from anything.

 

Yes, I say you should do this...ASAP...bring a bible.

 

Yeah. The Mayflower was not funded so the Pilgrims could sit around in their huts reading the bible and making baby Pilgrims. It was a company venture. That is why the Pilgrims had to take on other folks for the colony.

 

I don't recall "one Nation under whitey" or "in whiteness we trust" so to answer your question- no.

 

Ho-hum.

 

I am just checking here based upon previous posts but...

You do realize that neither the pledge of allegiance nor the motto on our coinage was created anywhere near the founding of this nation, right? And that neither says 'Jesus' or 'Christ' or 'Christian'?

As an interesting side note of trivia to the pledge of allegiance, look up the "Bellamy salute".

 

Some of the founding fathers weren't even Christian as it was defined in their time or as it's defined in ours. Jefferson and Franklin spring to mind. They were deists.

I say this as a Christian Chaplain in the Navy (of the same tradition as the only clergyman on the Declaration of Independence). We've got to be careful about remembering that "God and country" is three words, not one.

 

Hey, do the Chaplains in the Navy always have candy too? Or is that just an AF thing?

 

So, what I get from your statement is the fact that religious beliefs have been long held in this nation..over a long period of our history, right?

 

Ok now this is really getting silly to me folks so I'm going to tell it like it really happened.
The original settlers were all atheists and driven from their countries for being such.

When they decided to form a nation just for the hell of it they needed a cool document. Not wanting to bow to a "God" they used words like "Creator" to be politically correct in the eyes of others they might have needed aid from.

Aid came in various forms and a nation was founded! Hooray!
By 1806 and a half, many nations realized we had not declared an official religion as did their people.
At this point the first Baptists and Jehovah Witnesses arrived to knock on doors and basically bug the crap out of people. They do it to this day.

Meanwhile Catholics, Lutherans and Scientologists sought to get a piece of the pie that was so open for the taking. They became politicians but NEVER mixed with the Church. All clandestine.
Buddhists, Muslims, Druids etc. were too slow to make the move.

Eventually a bunch more crap happened and the word GOD started showing up in things like the Pledge of Allegiance and the motto of the Two Cent Piece.

Abraham Lincoln (a U.S. President till he got his head blowed up) decided freeing the slaves would be a good political move.
It is a little known fact that Lincoln was not only a closet Muslim but could see into the future much like Nostradamus. Unfortunately he didn't see his head getting blowed up.

In 1909 the cent design was changed to commemorate his 100th birthday (like it mattered - he's worm food). Still he had a greater vision.

So why did Lincoln free the slaves? Well, it's simple. He knew a black guy would be sworn in as the President of the United States of America in 2009 the 200th anniversary of his birth. Seemed pretty cool to him at the time.

So now we have a Black, Muslim, President and it's all Abe's fault!

If only this country were founded on Christianity.

 

Ummmm, I think I have said we are and have been a country where most people believe in a God. I think I have said it on a number of occasions. Several times. And I just said it again.

Truthfully, I think this thread has become a bit tedious and repetitious so I will summarize and close.

What it comes down to is that I think there is a huge difference between being a nation where 80-90% of the people believe in a God of one form or another and being a Christian Nation. And I have seen nothing in this thread that shows 'Jesus', 'Christ' or 'Christianity' being mentioned in our motto, pledges, Constitution or Declaration of Independence or anything else.

Furthermore, we do not have a Christian government. We are not a theocracy. We don't have Mullahs or Priests running the nation. There is no Sharia or Biblical law that we must abide by. We are not any kind of Christian equivalent of an Iran or even Pakistan. We are not the Christian Republic of America nor a Christian Nation. And I pray to God we never end up any of those things.

That sums it up as clear as I can make it.

And as a final note, I will leave you with a few quotes from some founding fathers. I will leave it as homework to find out who said what if you so choose:

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.

Of all of the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny of religion is the worst.

History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose.

I never told my own religion, nor scrutinized that of another. I never attempted to make a convert, nor wished to change another's creed. I have judged others' religions by their lives, for it is from our lives and not our words that our religions must be read. ...it is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read. But this does not satisfy the priesthood. They must have a positive, a declared assent to all their interested absurdities. My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest.

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg

I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!

I close.