Contrary to the front they put up, I suspect the Iraqi government isn't as hell fired to see us leave immediately as people might think. I read a recent news article that they are a little nervous about a hard and fasr 16 month time table.
I wouldn't want to be there period David. Now name a war where EVERY U.S. soldier came home at the same time. Name a war where the first deployed troops weren't the first troops deployed for that matter? There's a beginning, a middle and an end all three chapters suck dude. People die. So how would you withdraw our troops? Or should we ever? Should we stay in Iraq indefinitely because we know when we leave it will, most likely, go back to internal feuding? You think the various religious factions that have been around for centuries are going to suddenly say - "hey the U.S. taught us so much so let's just get along". Is al quaida in Iraq? I believe they are now that Saddam is gone. Don't get me wrong on that one David he was, as you would say, a bad, bad man. Betting he wasn't tolerating too much al quaida though as it would have been a direct threat to him. Meanwhile Afghanistan gets worse by the day. Troops are dying. Taliban making a resurgence, al quaida doing quite well I would surmise. What about the other mid east countries. Think any al quaida are there? Do we deploy huge masses of troops all over the mid east? Should we just start WWIII and cut to the chase? Or maybe we should support our true allies while defending our own borders. Maybe a little diplomacy with our "enemies". Silly as it may seem to you these avenues can accomplish a lot. Here's a real hard fact. Automatically saying diplomacy and other avenues will fail guarantees their failure. If it's never tried how, after all, could it succeed.
Heartless!! How would you feel if one of your loved ones was in that last division, in country, at the very end of Obama's "phased withdrawal" master plan??
I read an article in the Washington Post (I think) recently that talks about this. If there's no SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement) by 31 December, US troops are restricted to their various bases.
Besides Vietnam, I can't name very many wars where they came home at all. Still in Germany, Italy, Korea, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan. Maybe if Obama can figure out how to get us out of Iraq, he can start working on the rest of the world next.
Realistic. I have seen enough end results of war, carried enough stretchers of off helicopters, and stood in enough fallen comrade ceremonies to tell you for a fact that people die in war. People are going to die if we stay and people are going to die if we leave.
Unless my year in Korea and my stop overs on military bases in Germany on the way to the AOR were dreams, I would say yes.
People die People die. Yes David. Those two words are true. The ONLY words you choose to quote me on to try and make me look heartless. David that is a pathetic response even from you man. You asked for a comment and you got one. THEN you take something totally out of context and try and turn it on me. Business as usual in your camp I suppose isn't it David. Darn right people die. This happens in war. Should I surmise you have no compassion for the ones that have died so far or only the ones that die at the end? Should we keep the war going so no one has to die at the end? They can just die in the "middle" part so it's OK? War is ugly David and people die. This is not a "heartless" statement. It's the darn truth and if you can't see that then you really need some help. I'm still waiting for YOUR answer on how to withdraw everyone at once. Shall I now add "with no people dying".? All you can do is take a piece of my post and turn it around as "heartless". Well David, I'm including that post of mine below so maybe a few people can see what I really said. I even put where you pulled it from in bold print for them to see. Saves them the time of going back to look at it.
You can back away from your statements all you want...the meaning was clear. You will support Obama's appease-the-radical-left withdrawal/surrender plan blindly, even to the point of dismissing US lives as "just part of the deal". I get it.
What if their government wants us out? What if they want to be able to try our soldiers in their courts if we stay? Are we building a nation or annexing a territory?
Somewhere in your twisted little mind you did get it David. I hope to God it's not contagious. You read into any statement whatever your severely warped mind deems as the truth. Where exactly did I back away from my statements David? How can you ascertain a clear meaning? I'm supporting the "Obama appease-the-radicall-left withdrawal/surrendoer plan? As you will support the let's just keep sending soldiers overseas to die theory? I dismiss lives as part of the deal? Excuse me but EVERY live soldier we send over there is a potential dead one. Is that not a sacrifice? Is that not in some ugly way true? Again I will state. You asked for a response David and I gave you one. You twisted it as much as you could. Hell, others saw it while I was composing my response. You still have not answered ANY of my questions. Why is that David if you are so smart, so all knowing and so for saving lives? Really Why? Is it because you don't know the answers or even have any viable alternatives? Is it because you have NOT gotten over the fact that Obama was elected as our next President? Is it because although you may be smart you exhibit a great deal of blind ignorance EVERY time you rehash the same crap that was going to defeat Obama in the election? It's over. Obama won quite handily. If you feel you have to attack him for the next four years then enjoy your miserable existence. Most of us will move on with our lives and take things as they come. Gotta secret for you. Even BEFORE Obama that's what most people did. A day at a time. Now until you can prove you can read my mind or produce the crystal ball do me a favor. If you're going to attack me or my views at least make it something real - as in not made up in your mind. You become more pathetic with every post and by the way. Obama carried Indiana.
Wow, I guess calling you out on your Obama-worshipping thing really struck a cord, huh? When you calm down a bit & think it through, you'll see my point- Blindly following Obama will prove to be devastating.
David, At this point I really only read for the comedy and you provide it. Struck a cord? Dream on. Just figured I'd give you an answer. You horribly twisted same and it was addressed by myself and others. Here's why I see it as comedy David. I see you and another mostly these days rehashing the same old paranoid lines. One was a 20 second clip pulled from a 30 minute speech as Stu Joe pointed out. To you guys it's "gospel". You continuously bash Obama and those that voted for him with the same tactics as used in the election. Why is that David? There is a medical term for it. Mono thematic delusion. This happens when somewhat normal people (like yourself and I'm giving you a huge benefit of doubt) lock onto one topic. Your topic was the defeat of Obama. Well, he won. Of course, being so complex, at one point you stated your goal was to change my mind. You lost. The topic of SO MANY conservatives is indeed mono thematic. Why? - because they are so used to using the same insults and allegations over and over that they know nothing else. This is you David. Cut and dried. So you go David. You keep "striking a cord". Make a bigger fool of yourself. I'll help you when I feel like it but honestly David you bore me. Now I'll bore you. Are you ever going to give me your brilliant plans for getting us out of the war with minimal losses? You know Obama might even listen to a guy like you if it's a good enough plan. You are, after all, both Americans.
That's "above my paygrade". Is that a good enough answer or you? It was sure good enough of an answer for you to vote the guy into office.
Well Clembo, we may have found some common ground. Ending the unconstitutional Iraq fiasco is actually, the only positive thing I can foresee Obama doing. I do feel bad for people that don't agree because I at least have this glimmer of hope. This issue was probably a larger issue in Obama getting elected than a lot of people would believe. What's amazing was McCain's idea to continue it despite the American public's dismay with it. That was a campaign point to rely on? You gotta be kidding me. Now, like everything else, I/we don't know what exactly Obama plans on doing. There's a chance whatever he does will be inadequate. In that case I will be very disappointed, because like I said, this is the only positive aspect we have a chance to achieve from an Obama administration IMO. And this will be an extremely costly positive with all other aspects considered. To me this is very simple. Cut and dried. Iraq began in March 2003 on what most will agree was bad intelligence. So, the scope of the invasion, the objective, was magically changed almost over night to justify the continuation of what's going on. Hussein gets captured, tried and hung. His sons riddled with bullets. The people are free. We gave them their freedom. I refuse to call Iraq a war anymore. I stopped calling it one years ago. There is no defined enemy. There are no defined objectives. I don't think about it on a daily basis anymore. I personally don't know what's going on there on a daily basis, monthly basis or even annual basis anymore. It is now and has been for years, a waste of lives and tax dollars. Then people tell me all of the time, " You're saying people died in vein!! You're an idiot!" And the only thing that makes them feel better about it is if we continue on "the fight" so we don't give up. But, is it really giving up? Does anyone doubt that the U.S. could stay there for 100 years if they want to? At some point, it's called letting it go and cutting your losses. Nobody wants to hear that, but it's the truth. We did lose the fight financially. A total loss. Nobody can argue that. The key to my philosophy: Everyone is in agreement that if the U.S. pulls out tomorrow, or next month, or next year, that there will be civil war and bloodshed. We had several, sensible options. Option #1: They could have divided it up evenly, given it to the neighboring countries, (yeah, even Iran as a token of good faith. If they refused it, give it to somebody else.) Whahlah! The new sections of what used to be Iraq are now all governed by separate governments that are already in place! Then the different factions can move to whatever country they see fit. There had to be a way to make this work. But no, this idea was crazy. Option #2: Divide Iraq up and make 3 new separate countries. Each faction can have their own sense of pride and ownership. Maybe one will get the short end of the stick but what can you do? Give them the option of joining with one of the other two. Maybe give them something extra to make up for it. Nooooope, crazy. Stupid. Option #3: Make it a new U.S. territory. We've all but bought and paid for this god-for-saken country. Why not take it and kick out a large portion of the population? Keep only those who are an asset to the U.S. Take all the oil for ourselves and get SOMETHING out of it. Well, that would be too invasive and portray the wrong message in the middle east. That would outrage the middle east. Then we would be seen as conquerors engaging in Jihad against the arab world. Ok, well, that chance at stability and positive gain is off the table. So we took option #4, the worst, most costliest option where guaranteed we lose in every aspect no matter how long we're there. Back to original statement. "Everyone is in agreement that if the U.S. pulls out tomorrow, or next month, or next year, that there will be civil war and bloodshed." Since we didn't take steps to try and avoid the civil war, this is the likely outcome when we leave. If we knew this was going to happen at some point in time, we could have left completely at ANY POINT IN TIME in the past and achieved the EXACT same results we will achieve in 2009, 2010 or 2020. It simply doesn't matter. The fact that we could have saved thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars by doing it sooner is sickening. And what about the Iraqis??? At this point, I say let the stupid b@sturds have their civil war!!!! Let them go. Let them settle it. Whatever happens happens. I just don't care. We gave them freedom. If they're too stupid, too savage and uncivilized to take the freedom and run with it, then maybe they should all die!!!!! I don't care! I have no remorse! It won't be a loss to the world. I'm not going to blame Obama. Next, to answer that burning question for everyone......If the terrorists set up training camps, that'd be great!! An actual target again! Blow them to smitherines with cruise missiles or fly over and bomb them. We have nothing to lose because it's fallen back into a $hit hole. What's anybody going to do? It'd be far cheaper and easier. On the side, you've got what will be almost 2 trillion dollars gone, that may as well have been used for a really cool bonfire. Money (we didn't have) that could have went into our own country, our own economy, our own infrastructure. In the end, they're trying to spend all that money again, on top of it (bailout $$). And people wonder why the ship is sinking! As a result, we all better pray to God another, a real war doesn't pop up in the next 4 years because despite the fact that we may not have someone competent enough in charge, we would be at our weakest point in a long time. The military is weakened. The people are sick of being deployed. Morale is low and nobody can blame them in the least. Besides that, we're broke! Not just broke. But surely in debt to the point where this country may no longer be in existence and it won't be paid. What will replace it? I don't know but in essence, the money's never getting paid back. Nobody wants to loan us real money anymore! They've bankrupted us. There isn't enough money in existence to even scratch the surface of what is actually owed. We're slaves to the federal reserve and the rest of the world forever because the people we voted for chose to take the path we have.
Amazing how you keep evading the question and keep telling me what I think. David you are indeed proving yourself to be a great buffoon. Keep up the good work. What I think is really happening here is that you CAN'T answer the question(s). Please prove me wrong David. How do YOU propose we get out of Iraq without loss of life or should we just stay there indefintely hence guaranteeing more loss of life. Fear and criticism are not the answers David. By now, any reasonably intelligent person should realize that. Geez, IF I was bored enough I could go through your posts and find these same old "quotes" months ago. Get a tiny grip on reality. At least that will be a start. Then please answer the question.
Name calling, clembo? Huh. Thought you were better than that. Haven't you been the one to claim that one resorts to name calling only after their ability to reason & debate sensibly is exhausted?
