How can anybody vote for or feel good about Obama?

Aaaah. My first post in a fresh new political forum! I'm here just because I'm curious to see some views from people that I've come to know on the cointalk side. And, I think I'm probably in a little different company than my other forum. So this should be interesting.

As the subject line states, how are people excited about Obama? What I'm seeing is a lot of people believing what they want to believe. Hearing, what they want to hear. And I never see anybody with an open mind, willing to find or listen to common sense facts supporting Obama. So here's an open invitation. And before somebody answers with, "he's better than McCain", realize, I don't support McCain in the least either. (To me, this election is lose lose for America.)

Questions:

My biggest problem right now is, we aren't even certain this guy was born in the U.S.!! This isn't a right wing conspiracy theory. A lawsuit was brought upon him and instead of producing his birth certificate for a judge, the man invests in lawyers and relies on the case being thrown out on a 'technicality'. To me, this was circumvented long ago. I don't believe for a second the guy was born an American. His college transcripts are top secret, likely because he received special grants for being a foreigner, from what I hear. So to me, him being an option is the first muddy footprint stamped on the Constitution. Only the first. (BTW, a scanned document online with no state seal doesn't prove anything)

Next up, he has 143 days of actual, on the job experience. You don't get promoted in any job having this little experience. This aspect has been long forgotten, and accepted.

Next up, he's on record as saying he doesn't agree with the Constitution, that it opresses people more than anything and that the Supreme court has not been extreme enough at trying to "Spread wealth around". His socialist views don't seem to matter to anyone either. Ok. So on to the next!

His radical, far extreme views on the Second ammendment are absolutely horrendous, making John Kerry all of a sudden look good in comparison.
When it comes to this, this duo will be the harshest most extreme pair at restricting our rights that we've ever seen. And with the fully democrat controlled congress, they'll be able to get anything slammed through that they want. Most non-gun owners do not realize that, all your freedoms, all your rights, opinions, whatever say you have, stems from this very subject. Yet so few care and actually strive for bondage. It completely blows me away. Had our founding fathers known the masses would be voting for such tyrants as Obama/Biden, I'm sure we would have just stuck with the British. Before ANYONE tries to refute this, I know for a fact that these two misfits desire to ban anything you can name. I am totally appalled by this. People don't even realize or care, yet this right should be THEE MOST important to them. People will say I don't care about that. I care more about my taxes being raised. Well, guess what!? They take away any ability you have to fight, they may as well raise taxes to 100% and enslave you!! Most people don't like to hear this but it's the truth.

Then he voted for prosecuting crime victims who use a firearm in self defense in the home, four time!! And supports wreckless lawsuits that attempt to bankrupt gun manufacturers while abusing the court system! And opposes concealed carry despite 48 of 50 states having laws on the books and supporting it? C'mon people. Common sense. Common sense!!

Next. I again am in total shock that the average person wouldn't be completely turned off by this Rev. Wright scandal and Obama and his wife's own racism. It's UNBELIEVABLE to me that people will accept this. Obama plans on immediately setting up a Civil rights division in D.C. which of course will consist of a bunch of do-nothing, high paying jobs, for people to go out and harrass businesses and go to court over worthless lawsuits. You won't be able to say or do anything without it being taken as racism. But, people look past this as well.

Ok. Try again. His association with Bill Ayers. The fact that his records from the state senate have magically disappeared. His dealings with Tony Rezko and all the kickbacks he received being a sleezy lawyer in Chicago as stated in the Sun times. While supposedly fighting for the poor. Did I mention this guy has no experience doing anything!?

Please, please enlighten me as to how anybody with a pulse could possibly be excited about this guy. Forget about his looks or how he speaks ( which tends to be poorly without a teleprompter).

The ONLY positive thing I can see him doing is MAYBE, just maybe pulling out of Iraq finally. The only good thing I could see happening, even though the country's so bankrupt, we'll never feasibly pay back what we've spent already.

I dont see Obama waving a magic wand and suddenly the economy's better and the World loves us. No way.

Alright. Take it away Obama supporters!

 

Let me also add.... I invite ALL Obama supporters to just take 10, maybe 15 minutes.... Do a google search for quotes from any of our founders and read them. Think about them. Be it, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Samuel Adams. Compare what they have to say about remaining free, taxation, the right to bear arms and their definitions of tyranny, compared to our past, present and future. Then realize what you're voting for when you vote for Obama.

I hazard to guess that well over 50% of people that strongly support Obama really don't know anything about him. Maybe their tired of the Iraq war. Maybe their illustrious union leader told them to vote for him. Maybe they're afraid of being called a racist if they don't!

As Thomas Jefferson once said, " Any civilization who expects to be ignorant and free, expects what never was and never will be."

We fit that description. And have for years. Very very few people decide to educate themselves.

I mean, stop. Take a deep breath. Stand back and look what we've come to. What once was a great nation.... Now, on a daily basis, you read here, on other forums, on newspapers and watch on the news as everyone's actually trying to JUSTIFY socialism on a DAILY basis, in order to support the cool new guy (Obama), the mesiah. I'm not okay with this. It can't work. Some may think that I'm just trying to come up with conspiracy theories, but no. No, I'm not.

There's a reason why things happen. Everybody knows d@mn well that illegal immigration hurts the country. So our politicians are against this right? Wrong. They encourage it. Why? Does anybody ask why? Could it be they actually WANT our standard of living to go down? That the poor are easier to control and it equates to more democrat votes in the end? I actually think there's a big picture to all this. I feel that I think outside of the box while most can only be content thinking within the box, going on with their lives as business as usual, picking the other candidate because it's the lesser of two evils. I can't do this anymore. I have a conscience to contend with when I get home.
In reality, our ability to 'vote' has been taken away. The media decides who we vote for and who wins. Obama didn't deserve to win. He was picked out by the media from day one. McCain was hated by most republicans exactly one year ago. His campaign was dead. Then somebody wants to try to tell me that the PEOPLE nominated this clown as the party's best choice? IMO, they picked the worst option and just about any other one could have defeated Obama.

And now, the media is deciding the final election for us as well. Showing Obama so far ahead in the polls that the average guy may as well stay home. Does anybody here feel like they have a say? I sure don't.

 

I love how these raging anti-obamites always preface it by saying 'um...I dont like McCain either' BUT VOTE FOR McCain...as if anyone could feel good about voting for him either...That's okay though...McCain is trying to distance himself from the republicans as well...as if he hasnt been, more or less, party line through the last 8 years. I think the whole situation shows how turned off everyone is with the republicans that a guy like Obama could be considered a savior and that even your party line republicans (like above) will rage and rage and let us know how he is evil and he will ruin this country but people always think 'could he honestly be worse than the last republican 8 years?'...could either of these guys ever fail as spectacularly as the man we have now? me thinks most think no.

I read a lot of rhetoric above, most just hyperbole...or founding fathers? Look to Bush and Reagan my friend...if you want to see men who are the root cause of the huge bloated government we have today...men who spent like money is penny candy...it was dont you know?

Obama did not starting taxing individuals...that happened long ago before anyone running today was born...He was not the one who snuck in a 25-30 % tax...far larger than ever before in history...again...that precedence happened long ago. Or forefathers wish for low to no taxes on individual income was tossed out the window long long ago...to rant and rave about it is fine because indeed we were duped but to point a finger at any one politician for it is laughable... All of a sudden you have a problem with sharing the wealth? You honestly think this man is gonna take away guns? please...tell me another story!!

Well lets stop sharing the wealth then okay? All those sick and old people, let them rot...why should I help the sick and old? Let them support themselves of die...survival of the fit. temporarily out of work, cant find a job? tough crap, need a bit of assistance, in a bind? screw you...farms need subsidies? tough crap...stop the payment immediately...I dont want to share my wealth with the farmers, let them sink or swim like the rest of us...SS? Let people save on their own and if they dont...screw them...let them die in the streets....No subsidies for ANYONE, no government help for ANYONE...while we are at it...I dont want to pay for your kids education, only mine...so why the hell am I paying for school? I dont have a kid going!! Why should I help educate you stupid kid?

And most of all...why the hell am I MY wealth with Iraqis? Colombians, Pakistanis, Afghanis, Israelis, ad nauseum....yank it all...let them fend for themselves...I dont want to share my wealth!!!!!! Well you are sharing it with pretty much every country in the world...billions upon billions to Iraqis who cant spend it fast enough...and you are worried about a statement about share the wealth? It just seem funny to me how people seem to think this guy is going to turn us all red...its hyperbole and prognostication, seeing into the future, scare tactics during an election...but dont let me stop you...we've have had months after months of this, a few more days of people proclaiming either side evil wont change anything.

 

I never said vote for McCain. I'm not voting for McCain to try to beat Obama. I refuse to vote for either of them. Neither are qualified. I plan on writing in for Ron Paul while I'm there.

I said it's been going on for years and years. Many of the issues I brought up you didn't address. It's a very typical response that I see over and over.

At this point, I strongly believe Obama could break any law he wished and his supporters would still stand behind him and fight for him, proclaiming that it was too outrageous of an idea. "He couldn't possibly do that."

 

Well, I am voting for Ron Paul as well...dont get me wrong...I dont like Obama any more than McCain, I see them as both party line puppets and both bad for this country in about the same way...but this 'Obama is going to destroy america and is an evil man' hyperbole is nuts...that about all I can say...people have lost their grip...and yes...the american citizen thing is just a political game, there is not a shred of evidence for me to think he isnt an american, if he isnt, then the burden of proof is on them and they have yet to convince me, I have yet to see anything but a birth cert from hawaii and people sueing him...sueing him doesnt make him guilty but keeping it in the public eye keeps doubts in peoples minds and that is what its about. His associations? Sure, not great...but I believe Obama is a democrat to the bone and not a black radical (though he may have leaned that way, I certainly have had some questionable associations as well when younger, said crazy things here and there as well). I am just as concerned about McCains associations past and present...

I dont think he is going to take our guns away, I dont believe that because he said what the US already does (share the wealth) that he is going to turn america into the USSA...etc...etc...half of what you mention has been harped on for how long now? No I didnt address half of it because its not in any way been proven true...and yes, conspiracy theory. Got something new that proves he is either muslim, terrorists or african? of course not...

Not only that but I wont defend him or McCain as I think they are both shady political creatures who would say or do most anything to win. I wouldnt defend either one of these scumbags. That being said I wont play into the partisan 'OMG!!! DID YOU KNOW?' garbage either...I will simply vote for the person I think is the best candidate and that is, of course, beyond any doubt...Ron Paul

 

Face it, Obama gets a free pass on his associations, his record, his statements, his promises, etc and if you try to make a case, at least here, you get accused of everything from hyperbole to being a Rep hack to being paranoid...they just don't get it.

As for "spreading the wealth"? KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY MONEY!! I've worked very, very hard to get what I've got. I've sacrificed & made responsible decisions...now Obama wants what I've earned? If you want a chance, a leg up, whatever...go do it yourself. This is America for God's sake- do it yourself!! Work harder, study harder!! You want money? Go get it yourself!! Go EARN it!!
I love the "old & the sick" and the "education" arguments. The old & the sick should be given some consideration but what about the millions of sorry asses out there with their hand outs waiting for Obama to redistribute our wealth to them? Education? I send my kids to private schools because the local public schools are terrible (and dangerous). Why in the world should we not have the right to choose the direction of our kids education without having to contribute to a broken system we don't particiapte in? Make that make sense.

 

I dont think Sam Adams and Ben Franklin held a political office. And you dont have to to run for President. If Obama wasnt an American, he wouldnt be allowed to run. Dont you think there are poeple looking into such a thing?

 

No, I don't. It's far more likely that people knew and have done their best to cover it up. I just heard on the radio yesterday that there is no official process for validating a candidate is U.S. born. Why? Because it's never been an issue until now. Which means nobody is in charge of this. Don't fool yourself into thinking there's a government watch dog. Why isn't McCain hammering on this? He's already accused of running a dirty campaign. They can't afford to bring this up as well and have the media cover it up and make McCain look like bad again. There's nothing to possibly gain in this climate.

An American citizen tried to be the watch dog. They brought it before the courts. Obama invested in lawyers. He would not provide an official certificate and it was thrown out on a technicality. This would lead me to believe that it is far more likely that he has something to hide, than the idea that he is being honest and just doesn't have time.

The judge in the case was faxed the ruling. He wasn't even allowed to make the ruling. This guy is too far along and too much money has been spent to worry about the Constitution now.

Now only your wonderful Congress can question where he was born and it's highly unlikely that the dem majority there will want to shed anymore light on this.

I wish I was buying a house right now so bad. If they asked for my birth certificate, I would just tell them that I have a scanned document on my website. You're welcome to go look at it and 'verify' it. If they said that won't work, then I should sue because that's all a presidential candidate needs to do.

The fact of the matter is, all he had to do was produce the document and all the accusations go away. Let a judge verify it. He refuses. So, my opinion will stand until and unless it is actually solved.

 

Drusus;271283]...but this 'Obama is going to destroy america and is an evil man' hyperbole is nuts...that about all I can say...

I'm sorry but I don't see it as an exaggeration. The average person voting for him really doesn't know what they're getting or what they're voting for. He is a liar. He's been caught up in lies several times. His stop the smears section on his website is what's nuts. He refutes every single negative thing that's ever been said about him as 'only an untrue smear.' He can't take credit for anything negative that surrounds him.

Concerning the 2nd amendment, there is zero exaggeration. If you want, I will copy and paste an entire page of his extremist views and ACTIONS that he has taken in the last 8 years. He absolutely will sign any of the wildest, craziest gun ban legislation that crosses his desk without a doubt. Again, I will paste all the facts and proof you need if you want them. He is an extremist, desperate to disarm America. This isn't an exaggeration, this is his dream. Even the average person would have to ask why they're so desperate to disarm everyone.


people have lost their grip...and yes...the american citizen thing is just a political game, there is not a shred of evidence for me to think he isnt an american, if he isnt, then the burden of proof is on them and they have yet to convince me, I have yet to see anything but a birth cert from hawaii and people sueing him...sueing him doesnt make him guilty but keeping it in the public eye keeps doubts in peoples minds

Check youtube. That is free press. What's on tv isn't. There isn't one, two, three, four, items that are fishy about it. There's more. There just shouldn't be this many issues pertaining to this and his unwillingness to provide this and the actions of the state of HI to seal any information pertaining to Obama will leave me questioning this forever.


and that is what its about. His associations? Sure, not great...but I believe Obama is a democrat to the bone and not a black radical (though he may have leaned that way, I certainly have had some questionable associations as well when younger,....

Have you listened to some of the things he has said?? I'm mainly only talking about 2001 and on! He is an extremist to the bone.




I dont think he is going to take our guns away,.....

Then you don't know the man in the least. I can pour on you all the idiotic ideas and bills he's supported in the past. Some things the average person couldn't even dream up. His goal is to disarm, period. He has the record to PROVE it.

I dont believe that because he said what the US already does (share the wealth) that he is going to turn america into the USSA...etc...etc...half of what you mention has been harped on for how long now? No I didnt address half of it because its not in any way been proven true...and yes, conspiracy theory. Got something new that proves he is either muslim, terrorists or african? of course not...

No. I haven't even bothered or followed any accusations of his terrorist connections. Haven't had enough time. There's so much other negative information that people need to know, I haven't had time. Seriously. I do strongly believe he was Islamic at one time and switched his religion for politics. I have no doubt about that.

Not only that but I wont defend him or McCain as I think they are both shady political creatures who would say or do most anything to win. I wouldnt defend either one of these scumbags. That being said I wont play into the partisan 'OMG!!! DID YOU KNOW?' garbage either...I will simply vote for the person I think is the best candidate and that is, of course, beyond any doubt...Ron Paul [/QUOTE]

McCain doesn't deserve to win. I will not vote for him but I could live with him. To me, Obama is not only a political opponent but an outright enemy of the country. It's not a partisan opinion. This guy's views are dangerous. One thing to think about is, normally, you only get to know about half of what a person is really about. Any person in general. You get to know that which they're willing to share publically. So I wonder what else Obama believes that he hasn't been willing to tell us?

 

No. No. No. I will not believe people will keep things quiet about his birth nation. Thats paranoid talk. Thats a story. And no newsperson would let that slide. What if you heard that Ron Paul hanged dead babies on a clothes line for kicks? I know this to be true. The media wont report it because its too disgusting.

 

This goes back to my initial comments. Peope are believing what they want to believe and hearing what they want to hear. This is another prime example.


People haven't kept it quiet! It's come up on any number of shows and radio programs but just as you do, it is discounted as paranoia, without anybody stepping forward and saying, this PERSON, this AGENCY has proved anything.

They just want to get past the issue as quickly as possible. After all, factcheck.org (which Obama has been associated with in the past) says, THEY verified the document. That's aaaaalll the proof anybody needs!

Well, looking at that folded document from their site and then looking at the unfolded scanned document with no state seal impression visible, with a screwed up border on Obama's site leaves me wondering. Sorry.

 

So do you have proof positive that he was born elsewhere or are you "believing what they want to believe and hearing what they want to hear" So far I have not seen any proof that the man is anything other than American, all I have heard is conjecture.
A lot is made of his name that it is arabic in nature, would people behave in the same way I wonder if a person with a jewish name stood for this office? Would there be a outcry if the persons name was hispanic or oriental? Would the same accusations be leveled that there 1st loyalty was not to the USA but to some other?

 

If there is something negative that powerful people want to cover up, who do you expect to present you with the proof on a silver platter? If there's doubt, somebody needs to ask questions and try to shed more light on a subject in order to clear the doubt. I would think most innocent persons would want to be as open as possible over what they are being accused of.

Obama is the media darling. No candidate has ever gotten as much of a free pass as this guy gets on a daily basis. Do not rely on them, even though they love controversy.
Nobody in congress is going to stand up and question this. They want the Whitehouse so bad, they will take any measures necessary. Including signing up thousands of fake voters and trying to get illegals and prisoners the right to vote. Nobody's going to try to undercut this guy by making a stir over something this trivial. Are you crazy?

When you stop questioning things, you may as well have a dictatorship. In fact, I think a lot of people I hear from would be just as happy with that scenario as long as the dictator tells them that everything they wish to do is for the people's own good. There's no reason to believe otherwise, right?

I mean our elected officials as a whole the last 10 years have shown the utmost, highest ethical standards and moral values! There's no reason to think somebody would........LIE about something! Right?

Yeah, I guess it does 'feel' better to not question anything and just assume that there's somebody checking up on facts for the good of the people. There just has to be someone, for sure!

 

He asked you a question. Do you have proof that Obama is not an American? I'm sure there are alot of people with influence that dont like the guy who can get the truth. Are they too busy? Arent some folks in congress Republican? And what about the fact that Ron Paul has made some pretty anti-nordic comments? And he has some guy brush his teeth. Yea I heard this about him.

 

Do you honestly believe that the Obama camp is that powerful, it can silence everone from the World press to the FBI to congress? Heck Nixon was one of the most secretive of people but even he coudnt cover up Watergate or the tapes for long. Are prospective presidential candidates not vetted prior to been allowed to run for the office?
Oh and I should say that it is not trivial as even I know it to be one of the pre-requisits for running for the Presidency (Hardly a trivial point is it)

 

I have just discoverd that there is a plot afoot to make John McCain the President even though he was not born in the USA They changed the law one year after his actual birth to make it possible for him to run for the presidency LOL

John McCain, who is the Republican nominee in 2008, was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. Although the Panama Canal Zone was not considered to be part of the United States.

Federal law states: "Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

The law that conferred this status took effect on August 4, 1937, one year after John McCain was born — albeit with retroactive effect, resulting in McCain being declared a U.S. citizen.

This is what you call long term planning by the Republican party

 

Now that is one of the more paranoid statements I have read in some time Vess. Congratulations!

This goes both ways. The constant flow of Republican "fear" tactics only backs this up. They want the average American (that you won't find here) to suck this stuff up and believe.

Hey, it works for Obama as well - no doubt. Put yourself in millions of Americans shoes and try to think why they might "blindly follow" an Obama. Looks a lot different when you've worked hard all your life, gotten by and suddenly you're selling off your coins, jewelry etc. because you have to pay a bill. I see it EVERY day man.

Yes, I'm sure many of those people live beyond their means. Bought the "dream house" they couldn't afford, always a new car and suddenly they can't afford it. Can't say I feel all too bad for those people.

Others have lived within their means, drive used cars, pay the bills when they come, no "mad money" being spent and suddenly they're in a pinch. That's when they sell and they're not proud about it.

So here's where reality kicks in whether or not you agree. Things are bad for a LOT of people. Our economy sucks while we pump billions overseas.
George Bush is in charge therefore it's his fault. Doesn't matter how far before him HE'S the man. McCain is Republican like Bush. Easy connection.

Obama is different - can't get any worse. Vote for Obama.


Yeah, simplistic view but it is happening and the McCain campaign has not helped quell it at all. Personally I think Obama stepped in too early but in hindsight maybe not. Hillary would have had a hard time beating the McCain and as you fear Obama many others fear McCain.

IF Obama is every bit as evil as you say why in the hell wasn't the McCain campaign on it even earlier and harder? Were they even digging before he announced his candidacy? Why wasn't the Clinton campaign involved?

He could have been tossed out months ago if all said is true now couldn't he. Was his birthplace the October surprise? Does it REALLY matter now?
You can quote the Constitution all you want but if it was THAT big of a deal why wasn't it brought up a year or so ago?

The Republican party is as much to blame as anyone for Obama's success. Same old, tired fear tactics that Americans have grown very tired of. There's enough fear every time you open your mailbox.

6 days to go Vess. Obama will most likely be our next President. What is he getting?

A toilet. A very dirty toilet that he has 4 years to work on. I doubt he'll declare himself Muslim dictator come Jan 21. Too much crap to clean. If he does a good job I'll give him 4 more years.

If he doesn't I'll most likely vote Independent again. Why? because the Republican party has soiled itself beyond belief in the past few years.

 

I have plenty of reason to believe he's not. You guys keep throwing all these ideas at me that somebody has verified that he is. So, lets turn this around. Who has proved that he is? What agency verifies this information?
If there is no proof from either side, than it is up in the air. I will give you that much.

Why wasn't it an issue a year ago? Good question.

 

How dumb is the Republican party not to have challenged every ballot in the nation if they thought he was not a US citizen? They (both parties) challenge ballot access for third parties for the flimsiest of reasons. Why would they not challenge Obama's ballot access?

I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy but it is really hard for this one to pass the common sense test for me.