Welcome to the forum Gypsy, you do speak for yourself then. Thats good. Cut and paste posters are sometimes bots. 30% ers? Did you learn math in school? What poll was that? Ohhh, you mean the percentage that approve of Congress? Nope, they have only 1/2 the approval rating of the current administration. Hmmm.
Excellent !!! 4 posts and already resorting to name calling and issue dodging. David, when you post actual ideas and theorys that Obama or his campaign has articulated themselves, you will be met with harsh critiscism, especially from those who openly admit they are gambling on change for change in itself. ANY change is ok with them.
David, when you post actual ideas and theorys that Obama or his campaign has articulated themselves, you will be met with harsh critiscism, especially from those who openly admit they are gambling on change for change in itself. ANY change is ok with them.[/QUOTE] Yeah, and have you noticed not a single issue has been disputed by our Obama-loving friends? Common sense won't allow them to argue that we would be taxed out of our gourd & Obama won't be able to withdraw our troops on Day 1...the first 90 days...6 months (what's his plan up to now?). Let me let you in on a secret: Obama is LYING!!! Telling you what he thinks he has to to get your vote!! Once the cliched, pep rally-like frenzied Marxist haze wear off you'll be kicking yourself.
Chuckle, this is pretty good... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4073660986763590129 Sums it up pretty well too.
Part I Level Headed said: I would call working two or three jobs just to stay out of foreclosure/bankruptcy 'working harder & not getting ahead', wouldn't you? The number of folks having to travel this path is growing and the Repubs don't look to be doing anything about it. They think it's 'uniquely American' to be in that situation. How quaint! Obviously, none of them will be getting my vote. Let's be clear here. Americans do not stand behind the occupation of Iraq due to the fact they are finding out that the original reason(s) given for attacking have been proven bogus. (Source: Senate Intelligence Committee Unveils Final Phase II Reports on Prewar Iraq Intelligence) The Committee’s report cites several conclusions in which the Administration’s public statements were NOT supported by the intelligence. The media has been complicit in selling this 'war' all in the name of the almighty dollar. They refuse, for the most part, their active roll in promoting, sustaining, and prolonging this national in pursuit of improving their bottom line. The more blood, death, and destruction, the higher the ratings. Why do you think there has been such an explosion of blogs and websites trying to provide credible information being buried by the major 'news' outlets? The American people are refusing to be silent in the face of the co-opting of the Fourth Estate. In case you forgot, the airwaves belong to the People, not the government, as stated in our Constitution. Here is a prime example of fear-based thinking. Let me refresh your memory to untangle this mish-mash of nonsense. First of all, it was Saudi nationals who hijacked our planes on Sept. 11th. There were no Iraqis or Iranians involved. Second, Iran is more involved in Iraq and increasingly supportive of them since both are currently under Shia leadership. Our presence there is fueling this relationship and our withdrawal would reduce the incentives/reasoning for Iran to maintain that support. (Perhaps you have forgotten that Iran & Iraq were at war with each other in the not so distant past.) For what reason should Obama visit Iraq - especially on a 'dare' for the McCain camp? Don't you think all those rosy reports from Petreaus are sufficient to get the full picture of the 'progress' supposedly accomplished? The only reason this 'issue' is being raised is because McCain is looking for another tough-guy photo op at the expense of our troops. I think Obama has more respect for our troops than that and supports them by working to get them home where they belong. And for the record, he has not 'denied all requests' for a visit. He is, if I recall correctly, assessing the possibility and has not ruled out such a trip. You already ARE paying more for your goods, thanks to the Bush cabal's ham-fisted, greedy policies on illegal wars, backwards energy policies, and corrupt corporate cronyism. You already ARE paying higher taxes, thanks to the Bush cabal's deliberate pillaging of our public treasury and selling off our future to China to finance their oil-sucking war. You already HAVE a leader in the White House who had 'leadership' experience. Bush managed to bankrupt the oil company he ran in Texas (after he sold all his stock) and used his government connections (illegally?) and his daddy's money to fatten his wallet via the Texas Rangers. You already HAVE a leader who was absent during a time of national crisis. Remember My Pet Goat? You already HAVE a leader with a 30 year track record of insider trading, purposeful mismanagement for profit, unparalled hubris, blatant stupidity, and a circle of criminals he calls friend, mentor, or advisor. With all of this in mind, and with McCain advocating it's continuation, how in the world do you think Obama could possibly be any worse? This is pure baseless conjecture. I would predict that if you would stick to the disputed topic at hand, that a charge of racism would never enter the conversation. That you would think this is a possibility says a lot to me about the underlying basis for the arguments you would present for your side of the 'dispute'. I find this especially amusing since Obama has a link on all his issues pages asking for our input. Good on you for actually reading the website! I find this to be a step above the usual side-stepping encountered during my political internet conversations. You should be aware that Obama writes most of his own material. He, of course, has it checked for inaccuracies, clarification, and coherence. I don't find it at all surprising for someone who was President of the Harvard Law Review to follow this process. And, yes, I have seen him speak both with and without a teleprompter. I will admit his off the cuff speaking is not as smooth as a scripted, practiced speech. As far as extemporaneous speaking, personally, I'd rather have his thoughtful responses (even if they aren't as soaring as his speeches) than a pretty, practiced talking point with no effort given to a substantive response. Well, again, this is getting long, so I guess I'll do another Part II....
Ben that was very funny I have to say that as a total outsider I do worry somewhat about Obamas past associations, he had to realise what these people were about and to me that shows a seriouse lack of judgment. Asd for McCain he comes across as been rather quick temperd which is not a good thing in a head of state. I would also like to say at least the guy who wins will be elected to the post quite unlike our present Prime Minister
Part II Continued from Part I: How is this a contradiction? Creating jobs, such as in rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure or the vastly under-utilized green energy industry, will also increase wealth for individual Americans (as a paycheck) and corporate America (as a profit). It will also have the added benefit of reducing taxpayer spending for unemployment and welfare. You were taught correctly that minimum wage jobs were entry level. Unfortunately, in this Bush economy (outsource everything), minimum wage jobs, (with little or no chance for advancement) are now the main income(s) for a vast majority of folks. We cannot continue to ship our jobs overseas and expect for most of our citizens to prosper. THAT is the contradiction and it's not coming from Obama. As I was taught, all boats rise with the tide. Evidently you are one of the few who has no problem with the direction this country has been taken in. Fully two-thirds of this country has figured out that we cannot afford to 'stay on course' and still survive as a nation. Hence the mandate for change. Why, it's even been so successful, that McCain has tried (and failed miserably) to co-opt if for his campaign. If, by some remote chance (or more likely, by vote fraud), McCain ends up in the Oval Office, I'll be knocking on your door for a place to sleep after my house is foreclosed on. I agree with the qualifications for Office. I vehemently disagree that Obama has not met that bar. He has spent his entire career focusing on helping the 'little guy' keep his voice against an increasingly hostile, greedy corporate based America. He has dedicated his life to living the Constitution over lining his own pockets at some prestigious law firm as evidenced by his two terms as an Illinois State Senator and currently as a US Senator. He was wise enough to see what a nightmare Iraq would become well before we even got there and had the 'balls' to say so during his campaign for public office - and won anyway! His judgment on those close to him has been impressive, if not perfect (who's is?). I look to how effectively and efficiently he has run his campaign with those folks by his side. He could not have achieved the nomination of the party without a solid support system. I would ask whether any of us really knows all the deep-dark secrets of all our acquaintances and would be willing to put ourselves in his position? Would YOU be willing to have everyone you know put through the media meat-grinder and dump them in the ditch if it reflected badly on YOUR judgment? I sure don't see the Repubs held to the same standard. Amen and hallelujah! Thank you for adding this. It restores my hope for the country!
David blurted out this: Wow, you might want to have your vision checked. Evidently, you missed my point by point reply. Oh, that's right, you didn't bother to read it. Silly me.
Thanks for the welcome and I understand about the bots. Though, the amount of work invested in my posts would make me wish for a quicker method... 30% ers? Did you learn math in school? What poll was that? Ohhh, you mean the percentage that approve of Congress? Nope, they have only 1/2 the approval rating of the current administration. Hmmm. Actually, I was referring to the still oblivious folks who support Bush's disasters and McCain's bid to continue and expand on them. Oh, and the reason for the low Congressional approval rating....? That's because of 1) spineless Dems-in-name-only who haven't lived up to their '06 promises to stand up to Bush and the Repub trough-feeders who cover for and enable Bush's horrendous policies. And folks wonder why change looks so appealing.....
I'd LOVE not to have to do Part II, but, dang it, the comments are so wordy that I don't have much choice. Hey, I could do smaller bites and add a Part III ! Ya think? I guess we'll see, huh?
You do not have to sell me on Obama, Gypsy, I am voting for him. There is another thread about that on this site. I am not a Republican either, you will find that out elsewhere here as well. I threw the Repo card in the trash when they started spending like drunken sailors ( sorry sailors, and to my daughter, who is in the NAVY ), and the amnesty shamnesty attempt. The differance between us is this. I understand the ramifications of my vote for Obama,and am reality based in my decision. Liberalism is a disease that must be irradicated. Liken it to a cancer, where chemo therapy, as a last hope is nauseating and painful, might be the only chance. Wounds are sometimes cauterized, it burns like hell. Pills are bitter to swallow. The Republican party needs a bi $%%ch slap. Obama will be that B-slap. A total and genuine radical liberal in charge will help to demonstrate to America the obvious. Liberalism does not work. Again, I use Detroit as an example. A third world cesspool drowning in decades of liberal leadership, taxation and regulation. While you are very articulate and very effective at getting your point across, we are both voting for the same candidate for different reasons. Plus, I get the added joy of seeing McCain go down in a stinging defeat. Turncoat RINO's, let THAT be a lesson to ya. 4 more years of Carter is just what the conservative movement and America in general need. Another Reagan revolution, VIVA LA CONSERVATIVES !!! OBAMA 08' !!!!!! Addendum #1: Cut and pastes are simply regurgitated campaign rhetoric, they don't go far here. Much more effective when you speak for yourself without the script and talking points. The credibility factor goes way up when it is from the heart, not a screen on your puter or a printout page. Being knowledgable and well prepared is admirable, but being a parrot is not ( Dont be a Sean Hannity, (" Georges right wing b#@*tch pet parrot" ). Right or wrong, if you post YOUR opinion, and passionatly stand behind it with thought and analysis, it will be considered and welcomed. This forum is a debate and a point/counterpoint, not an outlet for todays fax's or email. Too many of those already exist, and they are quite boring. You know what Gypsy? I like you already. LOL, go figure.
OMG Ben, that was awesome, I'm still laffin. 1 inaccuracy tho....Obama says he is skinny but tough. ( I bet Michelle wears the pants, could you imagine if she turned green too?) Ann Coulter is a welcome site always. Ann Coulter and Laura Ingram are the hottest babes in politics. Let me think of a Lib hottie? Hmmmmmmmmm. Janet Reno? Diane Fienstein? Sandra Day O'Connor?
Well there was Ilona Staller who was a member of the Italian Green Party and a member of there parliment, she then went on to join the Italian Radical party now that was what is today called very liberal Now if you do decide to check her out be aware that parental guidence might be apropriate
I'm well aware of her Steve, lol Did I ever mention I am married to an immigrant? From Italy? The old Ellis Island route tho, a legal one, not a very provacative story.
Level Headed At this point, I don't care if you're voting against McCain and not necessarily for Obama. As long as McCain is sent packing, I'll be happy. I must admit a bit of surprise at the venomous reference to 'liberalism'. I understand being fed up with political machines, be they Repub or Dem. I look at that type of politics as in-bred & not always a reflection on the national party. Perhaps you'd elaborate a bit on your description of 'liberalism' so I have a reference point. I will also admit to some satisfaction in watching the Repubs fall all over themselves trying to dig out of the pit they've created. I won't be upset if it takes them a few generations to recoup. Thanks for the 'tip' on the forum style. My initial posts were to establish my bona fides, so to speak. The intent was to show my refutations (not all from Obama's site, as David mistakenly 'observed') and the sources for my position. The posts were so lengthy, I didn't want to expand them more than necessary. Believe me, I won't be shy about stating my views, rationales, and conclusions. I might even be persuaded to engage in the occasional bit of levity from time to time, too. For all your bluster, Level Headed, I think I might like you, too. So there!
Sorry it took so long to get back to you on this David but I've been enjoying the Tete a Tete between Level Headed and Gypsy so much that I haven't really felt like typing this. Yes this is about opinions and we all have a right to them. Was I bit harsh? Perhaps but nothing I've never been through before as a "stinking Liberal" so I'll get over it. As for me being a smart guy. Thank you! I am not a total idjit nor do I think you are one. Do I believe everything Obama says? Of course not David. I don't believe everything ANY politician says. Now can I ask you (assuming that you'll vote for McCain as realistically it WILL be Obama or McCain) do YOU believe EVERYTHING McCain says? The Democratic Primary was hard fought while McCain sat back and watched basically. There was Operation Chaos. Says a lot for the Republican party doesn't it? Recent polls would indicate that this may have been a GREAT waste of time. Instead of installing a coherent brain in McCain they just let him sit there man. Now it's BIG TIME! The Repos are rehashing the same garbage they have been rehashing for how long now? Jeremiah Wright? Fist bumps? The public is already tired of that I'm afraid. BTW Olberman dug up a fist bump of George Bush Sr. I have stated in the past in case you forgot. I am not a Republican nor am I a Democrat. I personally think a two party system sucks. It's all fueled on money. Obama wins? I'm sure there will be "favors" to repay. McCain wins? Same feces my man. Same feces to the same people. Now I know I wander all over the place. I have a lot on my mind. It's not just attack and spread fear. I seem to get criticized for this as well but once again I get over it. I'll leave you with this. Believe it happened yesterday. McCain when asked when will the troops come home as the surge is working responded with "that's not too important?". I think it is to a lot of people. Hope the brave soldiers in Iraq haven't seen this. clembo
So have I. We sure get worked up on this site at times dont we? The timing is highly suspect, as Obama has just launched a web campaign to hit the blogs and sites with articulate, well spoken supporters fully stocked with propaganda and amunition in his defense. Thats ok, McCain has admitted to not knowing anything about the web, and that his wife, the Beer Baroness, keeps him updated.
