Healthcare... again

Therefore, when comparing apples to oranges, it may not be wise to make blanket statements such as things being “ridiculously cheaper” when, in fact, they’re not (generally speaking).

 

Okay, if I want to live exactly like I did in America instead of taking a when in Rome approach, it may be more expensive in some regards. However, to the point of this thread, you know what absolutely is ridiculously cheaper? Healthcare

 

You want to know why I think medical care is so expensive?

I think Americans are less healthy than people in most other nations.

Convenience, indulgence and risk taking are central to American life, and it shows.

Americans want medical care to compensate for what they do to themselves, and the amount of medical care needed to do so is absurd.

 

Curious. I wonder how much Korea's healthcare would cost if they had to do their own Research & Development instead of relying on the rest of the world:

"Korea largely relies on scientific and technological discoveries made elsewhere to treat its patients, ranking second-to-last in Science & Technology (18.83, #30). While access to new therapies is strictly limited by Korea’s single-payer structure, the low cost of health care services enables a reasonable amount of choice."

"Most distinctly, South Korea’s growth of health care spending as a share of its GDP over the last 10 years increased substantially, ranking it in the bottom third of findings (24th)."



https://freopp.org/south-korea-heal...d-index-of-healthcare-innovation-cc931a3c8816

Not so good. And then there's this. Granted, this is from 2007 and perhaps things have changed. Please let me know if they have:

Objectives. We estimated out-of-pocket health care spending and out-of-pocket spending burden ratio employing household equivalent income in the Republic of Korea. We examined variations in out-of-pocket spending, estimated out-of-pocket spending burden ratio employing household equivalent income, and identified factors associated with out-of-pocket spending.

Methods. We used the 1998 Korean National Health and Nutrition Survey, a nationally representative survey of 39 060 individuals. Our analyses examined out-of-pocket spending, out-of-pocket spending burden ratio, and health care use by socioeconomic status, insurance type, health care facility type, and chronic condition after we controlled for sociodemographic variables.

Results. The lowest income quintile spent 12.5% of their total income out-of-pocket on medical expenditures, which was 6 times that of the highest income quintile (2%). Among those with 3 or more chronic conditions, low-income Koreans had the highest out-of-pocket spending burden ratio (20%), which was 5 times the spending burden among high-income Koreans (4%). In multivariate analyses, the number of chronic conditions, insurance type, health care use, and health care facility type were associated with out-of-pocket spending.

Conclusions. Out-of-pocket spending in Korea is regressive, because lower-income groups pay disproportionately more of their income compared with higher-income groups. Low-income individuals with multiple chronic conditions are particularly vulnerable.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854861/

Maybe you're in that "high income" bracket and don't feel the burden like the poor. I don't know you so I can't say.

Anecdotally, I spent a little over $200 last year for healthcare. Many people I know spent considerably less. Some spent more. I know you spent at least $420 ($35 per month x 12 months = $420). "Ridiculously cheaper?" Meh. I suppose it matters who you ask.

 

Did you use it?

Also, does the point of medical innovation not fall apart when looking at the costs of care in places like Switzerland, Germany, and the Netherlands who have higher indices of innovation than the U.S.?

That's literally how money works. Is that not also true in the U.S.?

 

I got what I paid for.

Just sayin'. Maybe South Korea should pay their fair share on R&D. But, hey if they don't have to and other countries are willing to foot the bill, why should South Koreans complain if they're getting a sweetheart deal?

I was hoping you could show us how the South Korean healthcare industry does not disproportionally and adversely affect low-income groups.

 

Wait a minute, a little over $200 is absurd. I was paying nearly that much monthly when I left to U.S. to buy coverage for myself and my wife. Is this like a medicare thing?

Well, I can't. It's not a utopia, it just has a much better system than the U.S.

Despite having universal healthcare, it has not become some socialist hellscape either, it's quite a capitalist country with many of the same pros and cons as the U.S., healthcare just isn't one of them. There's not even a need to focus on Korea. Throw a dart at this map and as long as you're not aiming for sub-saharan Africa, you probably find a better system.

 

Sorry, I didn't count Tylenol or stuff like cough syrup. So... maybe $250.

 

Straw man, Clown.

When you want to know who funded and constructed and continues to fund SMUH, Seoul Adventist, Severance, Seoul St. Mary's and University Network, ask.

Why must you continuously post straw man Ideology of Division nonsense, Clown? Because it serves your assumption that persons can be persuaded with your false and misleading comments.

 

As I said, we don't even have to use Korea as a model system. There are plenty of places taking better care of its people than the U.S. Korea is not perfect, just vastly better.

Haven't you had personal experience with the Korean healthcare system? Do you really prefer the U.S.?

 

So is it like bare minimum coverage? Would you be irreparably bankrupted by a cancer diagnosis? What if you slip and break a leg?

 

You seem overly concerned about my medical coverage. I’ve already told you what I paid. You’ll have to take my word for it. Or not. Either way, I’m not going to give you an in-depth analysis of my coverage.

 

Fair enough, I'll drop it. It just seems the major pitfall of the American healthcare system is the tendency to financially ruin anyone that dares use it for an unforseen situation, and that's what I was getting at

 

Clown. You do not want to learn or know. You simply want to divide and conquer. Marxist-Socialist Ideology of Division.

When you have a GSW, call me.

 

Clown.

 

... Gun shot wound?
Golden State Warriors?
고시원?

 

@charley what does GSW mean though?

 

So as an alternative to Gene's story of the Korean Health Care System, let me share my story of the U.S. Health care experience as a comparison.

This Friday, I am having a "procedure". Of course that means dealing with the hospital and the insurer up front for all the pre-approvals and crazy hoops you have to jump through. The patient in some cases is usually the last one that can deal with all the red tape and phone calls, and endless pre-approvals because they are either elderly or just too sick to navigate the system.

So, yesterday I got a call from the pre-estimate office at the hospital and they wanted to let me know what I would be paying when I arrived the day of the surgery. I was shocked that the estimate was $2,160.79 because my co-pay for any hospital surgical procedure at any in-network tier I facility is set at $275. Their estimate was nearly 90% higher than that amount. The hospital wanted me to pay at least some portion of that in advance, if I wanted to, or I could pay it the day of the procedure. I declined to pay in advance and quickly called my insurer. I have very good insurance and I knew that something was wrong given the amount they were asking for.

The insure confirmed that my portion was the $275 and they didn't know why the hospital was asking for so much money in advance. I called the financial estimate office back at the hospital and asked what the additional charges were for because my co-pay was only the $275. Apparently, the hospital wanted a 10% advance on the estimated procedure costs in addition to the co-pay. The funny part was that both the insurer and the hospital said that if I "overpaid", I would be refunded the difference. I would just have to wait until they were damn good and ready to actually process that refund. I am literally only responsible for the co-pay but they don't bother telling you that when they give you the estimate.

Why in the hell is it the patients burden to prefund a portion of the surgery when either the hospital or the insurer are much, much larger entities with far deeper pockets? After speaking to the hospital again, they removed the 10% of the cost and I kind of could tell that they had been caught by the sound of the estimators voice.

This is the system we are asked to navigate in this country. It makes no sense and leaves the burden on the patient to make sure that they aren't being extorted by either the hospital or the insurer. What a crazy system. I can't even imagine an elderly person trying to work this stuff out with these sharks.

 

A few years back I had a kidney stone. Not a direly urgent condition, but danged if it don't feel direly urgent when that stone is moving.... I was laid up on a table pumped full of morphine when a nurse came into my room with one of those hand held credit card reading machines. I handed her my card not caring one bit what she may run... I have a fifty dollar co-pay on urgent care. She ran my card for three hundred..... I had the balance refunded sixty days later.

 

I have been having kidney stones since my mid-twenties and my surgery this Friday is the culmination of all those kidney stones in that they cause scarring in the ureter that narrows the tube and causes the kidney not to drain properly which creates more kidney stones. They are painful to pass as you already know. Maybe this surgery will stop the problem once and for all. We'll see.