Talking Points for Talking With Your Obnoxious Progressive Family Members About Obamacare This Thanksgiving 1. Hey remember when you said that Obamacare was going to work great, and then, when people asked you how it actually worked, you sort of implied they were stupid for not knowing, and yet you never provided any evidence that you had any idea of how it was supposed to work yourself? Yeah, you were wrong to do that. 2. Remember when you called me crazy for saying Obama wanted to "spread the wealth around," based on not a scrap of evidence except for Obama himself saying he wanted to spread the wealth around? Yeah, there's a NYT article that says that Obamacare is fundamentally a redistributive program -- which means it "spreads the wealth around." Yeah you were wrong on that, too. 3. Remember when you said that it was only "REPUBLICAN LIES!!!!" that Obama's "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan" promise was itself a lie? I hate to keep coming back to this point, but you were way wrong on that one too. 4. Remember the "if you like your doctor" pledge? Yeah I feel like a broken record here, but you were wrong. 5. Remember when you gleefully, giddily declared the end of the Republican Party and a new era of Proud Progressive dominance? Yeah, the current political Big Story is whether or not Obamacare will wind up discrediting progressivism for just an election cycle or two, or as much as a generation. It looks like you were wrong about that. 6. Remember when you were so confident, arrogant, snotty, sneering, and dismissive about legitimate and informed concerns about Obamacare? You were wrong. And you weren't just wrong on the facts, but you were wrong on a human level. You very nearly screamed your ignorant opinions and shouted down dissent. You sneered at people as ignorant who actually knew more than you did, and you indulged in entirely-unwarranted moral preening about your alleged concern for the poor. Despite the fact that you never do anything to actually aid the poor. Apparently shouting at relatives is your idea of "charity." Yeah you were wrong. You are wrong. I know you won't apologize, but at least keep your stupid mouth shut this year and let us all digest in peace. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/345231.php
... and a few others on this forum, too. I'm not sure, but I don't believe you've had the displeasure yet of meeting Little Joe's favorite parrot, IQLESS1. He doesn't seem to be around the forum much lately. When he doesn't have his hands out, he usually finds time to type something insipid with them.
I'm going to keep my mouth shut. My sister and I already have a love / hate relationship when it comes to politics. I'm going to wait a couple of years when she's paying a tax penalty for this sin of not being able to afford "affordable care". Then I'll just simply ask how it's working out for her, is it everything it promised to be? She's a "starving artist". Here's her version of Obama... View attachment 2129
Hmmm... that's nice for you. Tell that to all the people who are losing their plans. You should read The Price of Experience by William Blake sometime. The Price of Experience
I know IQless1...he took a powder after locking horns with the incontrovertible truth and common sense of the Yak-meister.
Wow Coin you must have one hell of a miserable time at family gatherings if your OP is any indication. Why even show up? Why would anyone bother to show up for that matter. I recently spent three days in the hospital. No insurance I'm afraid. I definitely have some bills to pay but that's my problem. Not something I'll bring up at dinner unless asked about it. My sister called me Sunday and asked about it so I gave her the scoop. As it is it was not cheap nor did I expect it to be. Had I had insurance with a $10,000 deductible the cost of insurance through 10 months and paying the deductible it would have cost me $4,000 MORE than not having insurance. Had I had the same plan under the ACA with a $10,000 deductible the cost of insurance through 10 months and paying the deductible it would have cost me $2,000 LESS than having insurance. In my book that's a $6,000 difference in my favor. Factor in that I had similar problems over 15 years ago and it may have been considered pre-existing. Can't say for sure but wishing I had ACA when it occurred. Hopefully it won't again but I'm looking forward to January.
Would reading that, OKC, make it so I'm not keeping my plan as I've stated, or just distract me calling you out on points you have wrong?
Why didn't you have insurance? Was it because you had the money, but were too stupid to not buy insurance? I doubt that's the reason. Was it because you couldn't afford the $10,000 deductible? Now we're getting somewhere. Was it because you couldn't afford the monthly premium? That's going to be my guess. Of course, you realize that even under Obamacare you're going to have a monthly premium (something you're not paying now). You're also going to have the same $10,000 deductible (according to you). If you couldn't afford the deductible or the premium before, how are you going to afford them under Obamacare? The deductible will be the same and the premium is not going to be that much different. FINALLY! It's refreshing to hear someone post a modicum of personal responsibility. Well, there's some fuzzy math. You start with 10 piles of crap and Johnny says he's going to load you up with 4 more piles of crap, but never does. Then he says he's going to take 2 piles of crap away. Did you ever have 14 piles of crap? "May have"... "Can't say for sure"... "wishing"... It might be easier to understand your situation if you'd provide actual numbers or actual quotes from insurance companies other than just "may haves" and "wishes". I'm not insensitive to your situation, I'd just like to know the actual numbers of your current situation compared to the "what might have been" and the "will be under Obamacare".
Oh, you certainly MAY be keeping your plan, but please tell that to all the people who are having their plans cancelled. William Blake's The Price of Experience might serve to give you a little perspective, that's all.
Read into it what you want guys. I'm not surprised. Fact is the actual numbers are none of your business nor is my choice of jobs. I've personally seen the numbers that apply to me and the fact is that with ACA it most definitely would have been better.
But, the portion we pay now is far, far, far less than the portion we were paying before with millions of uninsured. Democracy isn't free so why should we draw the line at healthcare?
OK, my numbers aren't your business either. What if I say I'm paying three times more under Obamacare than I paid before? Fact? Hyperbole? You'll never know and there's no way for you to verify it. You would just have to take my word for it.
By: John Stossel (TownHall) Had today's politicians and opinion-makers been in power four centuries ago, Americans might celebrate "Starvation Day" this week, not Thanksgiving. The Pilgrims started out with communal property rules. When they first settled at Plymouth, they were told: "Share everything, share the work, and we'll share the harvest." The colony's contract said their new settlement was to be a "common." Everyone was to receive necessities out of the common stock. There was to be little individual property. That wasn't the only thing about the Plymouth Colony that sounds like it was from Karl Marx: Its labor was to be organized according to the different capabilities of the settlers. People would produce according to their abilities and consume according to their needs. That sure sounds fair. They nearly starved and created what economists call the "tragedy of the commons." If people can access the same stuff by working less, they will. Plymouth settlers faked illness instead of working the common property. The harvest was meager, and for two years, there was famine. But then, after the colony's governor, William Bradford, wrote that they should "set corn every man for his own particular," they dropped the commons idea. He assigned to every family a parcel of land to treat as its own. The results were dramatic. Much more corn was planted. Instead of famine, there was plenty. Thanks to private property, they got food -- and thanks to it, we have food today. This doesn't mean Pilgrims themselves saw the broader economic implications of what they'd been through. "I don't think they were celebrating Thanksgiving because they'd realized that capitalism works and communal property is a failure," says economist Russ Roberts. "I think there were just happy to be alive." I wish people understood. This idea that happiness and equality lie in banding together and doing things as a commune is appealing. It's the principle behind the Soviet Union, Medicare, the Vietnam War, Obamacare and so on. Some communal central planning is helpful, but too much is dangerous. The Pilgrims weren't the first settlers on the East Coast of the New World to make this mistake. http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/11/27/stossel-thankful-property
