A truly moral nation enacts policies that encourage personal responsibility and discourage self-destructive behavior by not subsidizing people who live irresponsibly and make poor choices.
But a truly moral nation knows how to tell the difference between enabling and causing its citizenry to have to choose the path of dependency. A lesson some here have failed to learn.
It's genuinely funny that right-wingers equate money and morality without even realizing the irony of their own words. Then without any further thought, they judge others as immoral based on the choices they happen to find offensive. Hum? Judge, jury, and executioner. Jesus is really going to tear these hypocrites a new one come the judgment day.
I think they must truly believe people choose to live poor, in poverty, struggling daily just to eat, even with government assistance. I can't understand that mentality, especially coming from a group that sees themselves as morally superior.
So...what's your plan to cut waste out of government, balance the budget, and reduce the debt...without harming those most in need? You know my plan...increase revenues by expanding the tax base (replace income tax with consumption tax). Make our products more price competitive overseas and return manufacturing jobs to America. At the same time, eliminate unnecessary government waste like the Departments of Education and Energy. They accomplish nothing! I never saw "bodies in the streets" (as Liberals predicted) after President Clinton reformed Welfare. However, both you and IQless claim the economy and society can't survive without increased Government spending. Yes...borrowing and spending money makes things better for a moment (like drugs), but even a child knows that's not a sustainable solution. Don't you see the craziness in your views? What's your long term plan for economic prosperity? ...raise income taxes? ...devalue the dollar? ...what? Please share YOUR plan...YOUR vision for America...anything that's even remotely grounded in reality. EDIT: I think I found Joe's "plan"...
Everyone should be have choices to work their way out of fear and poverty. The US Military is a GREAT choice...there should be more. Changing the Tax Code to return manufacturing jobs to American would be another GREAT source of opportunity. However, A very large portion of the "poor" choose their life style. I care for those that realize the folly of their ways too late in life...too late to change. Young people that would rather live on the Government dole than stand on their own two feet? ...no, you're right, I don't care to subsidize their lifestyle. I don't care to subsidize illegal aliens, either. Children should inherit the citizenship of their Mothers...not their geographical location of birth. The argument that we can't do without illegal aliens "because they do the jobs we don't want to do" is just plain crazy! The free market will sort out which jobs are needed and at what salary...without them.
You realize military personnel make less than the national minimum wage, right? Meaning they are far below the poverty level. I think we need flat taxes based on income. No matter what you make you pay say 30%. Why should I pay 54% when billionaires pay les than 01% ? Make it fair and that would solve our deficit issues.
I think the fastest way to make this country work for everyone and not just the super wealthy is to take money completely out of politics. I don't care what kind of tax system you levi on the entire country to be honest, half dozen of one and six of another really, but the fact that money buys you political favor is just nuts. Without removing money from the political equation any tax system you come up with will simply be corrupted the same as the current system is nothing but a stinking pile of corruption, influence pedaling, and legal bribery. Shorten the election system to one month, finance all candidates at the same level, and then take all the lobbyists on K street and dump them in the Mariana Trench. Then and only then would any tax system be judged in the correct context.
The military also couldn't handle the number of impoverished people in this country by a factor of millions. Also, the military doesn't just take anybody. Children seem to be discriminated against, the elderly barely ever get military appointments, and the disabled, well, the military kind of likes to create their own disabled thank you. This sort of nutty one solution fits all mentality, poorly thought out, poorly articulated, and massively simplistic doesn't even hold up to cursory scrutiny.
Having served in the USAF...yes, I understand that the base pay one receives twice a month is below the poverty level. Have you served in the military? Are you familiar with BAS/BAQ/VHA? ...or any of the other allowances or bonuses? ...or retirement by age forty (40)...on average. How about the lifetime access to military facilities, discounts, and healthcare? ...or the well paying defense jobs available upon separation? Btw, can you name ANY billionaire that pays less than 1% tax? There's only four (4) things you can do with money... 1. Spend it 2. Save it 3. Invest it 4. Give it away If you change from an Income Tax w/deductions (that are abused by the Rich) to a consumption tax... 1. If the money is spent, it's TAXED 2. If it's saved, it's devalued (aka TAXED) 3. If it's invested, it creates jobs and opportunities for everyone...GREAT!! 4. If it's given away to charity...GREAT!! ...otherwise it's TAXED. The benefit of a consumption tax over Income tax is... 1. It expands the tax base to criminals, drug dealers, tax cheats, and illegal aliens 2. It removes the 23% embedded income tax in the price of our products competing overseas 3. It adds 23% tax to foreign imports sold in this country (why shouldn't China help pay for the infrastructure it uses?) Net result...manufacturing jobs and tax revenue come FLOODING back to America. The "Fair Tax" is an Income Tax replacement that's non-regressive for the poor. Give it a look and let us know what you think... http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer
So...you're saying that the Military isn't a good option for a high school graduate that doesn't have an immediate plan for the future?
Military service does provide opportunity. My brother with a wife and kid on the way dropped out of college and enlisted in the Air Force. They taught him Fortran. He flies all over the world programing computer systems. My nephew is fluent in 4 languages complements of the US Navy. Neither of them have ever had to deal with student loans. Joe, yes absolutely right. Our current system of lobbying is corrupting the system. Access to public officials shouldn't come with a price tag. Campaign reform needs to be a big part of it. Who in their right mind pays up to 200 million dollars for a 4 year temp job paying less than a million a year, although it does come with free housing and a nice oval office. That in it's self reeks of corruption. My state operates off a VAT with no state income tax. We also have hard walls between funding sources. When I pay a tax on gasoline, every cent goes to the department of transportation. No one can raid the fund for pet projects and we have some of the best maintained roads in the country. We also have a rainy day fund and a constitutional amendment where we can't over spend our revenue. Sorry to be a parrot, but you guys are really good. This is an excellent thread.
Most people who play "the victim" are merely victims of their own poor choices. Do I think all struggling people woke up this morning & decided they wanted to "be poor"? Of course not. A kind society should always provide temporary assistance to folks who find themselves in a jam...but I do believe the vast majority of them made the decisions that put them where they are. And as far as being judgmental, maybe that's what some of them need! I'm constantly amazed, when someone shows up at Church asking for help, at the choices they make (or have made). If someone doesn't realize it's irresponsible to have a $200/mo cell phone bill or a $200/mo cable tv bill when they can't pay the rent or buy food, shouldn't some counseling be offered?
You're right David. But I think that's the exception rather than the norm. I live in a rather poor community and see every day people struggling just to get by. Most don't have a home phone much less a cell. Or tv. Or cars. Or enough food on the table. It's not for their lack of trying. Most hold more than one job, but making minimum wage in an area where even cheap rent is often $1000 month doesn't leave much if anything to live on. I'm fortunate I've never been in that situation. It had little to do with being more motivated as being in the right place at the right time.mi landed my career as a result of a bad decision when I became a father at 18 and decided I'd better look for something that paid better than stock boy at my uncles liquor store. Most people don't see what the poor go through and so rely on inaccurate blips of information to form opinions.
When I graduated High School (right after Vietnam), I was one step from a Hippie. I spent four (4) years hitchhiking around the country just meeting folks and living day to day. I never had a problem finding a dry, safe place to sleep, a job (if I wanted one), or a meal. Healthcare? ...I never thought about healthcare. I met a lot of poor people (like myself) that chose to live that lifestyle. Most of the people that REALLY needed help rarely asked for it and most that got government assistance could easily do without it. I met very few folks under the age of 40 that couldn't make a decent living without Government assistance. Of course, I'll admit, that was when there were plenty of good paying manufacturing jobs available and fewer illegal aliens driving down wages. EVERY woman I met on welfare chose that lifestyle by getting pregnant in high school or just after...to move out of the house. Once on welfare, they worked jobs with no reportable income and lived quite nicely. I lived with some and paid half their rent. The only downside was that I had to duck out the back when the welfare counselor paid a visit. I know all about the underground economy...then and now. Don't think this is an isolated case... ...I realize this is the Liberal "Utopia", but is it the right thing to do when we're $17 Trillion in debt?
