Why You Should Never Trust a Libertarian

No! If people were perfect, we would not be arguing. But even the left is far from perfect. Just look at Ayers, Biden. Pelosi, Reed, Obama et al. Even they cannot agree.

 

I'll put it this way: The constitution or toilet paper.

Both will work in a pinch.

 

Exactly IQ! The Constitution is treated like a bible all too often. It's ideals, freedoms, and wisdom were fine for a society that had far worse options back when kings and generals ruled much of the world. Today, we should use the Constitution as a starting point from which to create a better society in contemporary terms not designed for the world as it existed in the 1700's. The way these "The Constitution is the end-all be-all" types operate is no different than the way that they look at everything i.e. backwards. "Everything must be as it was in the past." They are just addicted to dogma in any form.

 

Name one? Valerie Plame.

If I had to name two.. Torture.

If I had to name three... War criminal

Oh but you just wanted one for a good reason I suppose.

 

I see. So, the Constitution isn't an "end-all-be-all" document unless your side wants to use it as such, e.g., the Obamacare tax that was ruled constitutional. Then look out, people! The Obamacare tax has been ruled constitutional so it's the "law of the land" and there's nothing you can do about it! Man, talk about hypocrisy!

 

Nice

 

Nice

It finally comes out what we have known along........The Constitution is toilet paper to these cowards. End of story.

 

Thank you Jack. You're "Nice" too.

 

S-t-r-e-t-c-h-!

 

Coward?

Nah, you got that wrong. I may be many things, some of them good, some of them bad, but cowardly isn't one of 'em. I don't fear much, unlike a lot of people, who appear to fear the government, or liberals in particular. Some of you think "they" are going to take your guns away. And for what reason? None. But you're frightened of it just the same. Say what you want, but I don't let idiotic fear make choices for me, unlike a lot of people in America.

As for the constitution being like toilet paper though. Not really. It's too brittle, and if I had a copy, I'd sell it, not use it as toilet paper. One reason is that the paper is already disintegrating, and there's not much use in keeping a piece of paper that's disintegrating. So I'd sell it while I had the chance, and buy toilet paper with it.

As for it being a good start, and not something worthy of being worshiped, I stand by that. You know why? Because everyone has an opinion, and the words written on that document are subject to interpretation. You seem to feel you have all the answers, that you and your kind are the only ones who understand the meaning of the words, but you don't. You wanna know why? Because even the people writing the thing were not totally in agreement as to it's meaning, so what makes you and your kind different than everyone else on the planet?

Believing yourselves to be the masters of knowledge about the constitution just means you can't see how wrong you are out of sheer arrogance, and ignorance. It's a document subject to interpretation, and reinterpretation, over and over again, as our society's beliefs and need change through time. There will always be more than one opinion of what certain words and phrasing mean within the current society, and in time, those beliefs and interpretations will change.

 

Most of the constitution is pretty straightforward. But it is like kids when they are told something by their parents... They often come away with a different meaning to that which was actually said if it suits their interests to do so.

I can understand someone disagreeing with the various rights and freedoms and the form of government we have had which are outlined in the Constitution. Much of the world disagrees with our Constitution. I can understand that idea but I disagree with it.

 

Do you have any idea why the United States has a Constitution (regardless of what it says)? ...just curious if you understand.

 

Holy CRAP!!! Where do you come up with this stuff?

1. Valerie Plame? ...really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair

The Bush administration sent Joe Wilson to Niger specifically to investigate an Italian report that Iraqi government official were trying to obtain nuclear material (yellow cake) from the government of Niger. Ambassador Wilson had made previous trips on behave of the CIA based on recommendations of his wife, Valerie Wilson. Ambassador Wilson reported that Iraqi officials indeed had high level trade talks with the Niger government, but could find no link to "yellow cake".

Frustrated by CIA intelligence mistakes, Scooter Libby spoke with New York Times reporter Judith Miller and told her that Ambassador Wilson was selected for the trip based on recommendation of his wife, a CIA employee. No one ever linked Scooter Libby to "outting" Valerie Wilson/Plame as a Non-Official Cover (NOC) CIA agent. Scooter Libby was convicted for lying about meeting with the press in the first place.

Richard Armitage is the person that identified Valerie Wilson/Plame to Bob Novak (the first to report Joe Wilson's wife as a CIA employee...but NOT a covert agent.

The person that "outted" Valerie Plame as a Non-Official Cover (NOC) CIA agent was David Corn...a shill reporter for the Left Wing rag "The Nation"...two (2) days after the Novak report. Robert Novak never identified her as a covert agent. However, Corn claimed that the Bush administration"outted" her as "retaliation for her husband's report" on nuclear material sales from Niger. The fact is that the Wilson report neither confirmed or contradicted the Italian report.

The only "scandal" was that Scooter Libby panicked and didn't tell the truth about speaking with the press. Scooter Libby was convicted of four (4) counts of making false statements, none of which were directly related to the "outting" of Valerie Plame. He was sentence to 30 months in jail and George Bush commuted the sentence (no pardon)...the conviction is still on his record, he was fined $250,000 and disbarred.

The Wilson's kept trying to get civil penalties out of the case. When appealed to the Supreme Court, then Solicitor general Elena Kagen (President Obama Supreme Court Appointee) writes..."The decision of the court of appeals is correct and does not conflict with any decision of this Court or any other court of appeals,...Further review is unwarranted."

Yes, Scooter Libby was Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff and probably heard about Plame from his boss. He didn't "out" Valerie Plame, but did lie about his discussions with reporters. For that he was severely punished.

With all that said...How does this have anything to do with Dick Cheney? ...other than "guilty by association"?

2. Torture? Dick Cheney?

Name one (1) person Dick Cheney has ever "tortured". I assume you're referring to the practice of "waterboarding" by the Bush Administration (and the Clinton Administration before that) ...again, guilty by association.

Waterboarding isn't torture! I was waterboarded in Prisoner of War Training. I'll admit, it's a trip! It puts you into an instant state of panic. It's uncomfortable, but that's not torture. It 's never killed or maimed anyone. Having your head slowly hacked off with a dull knife...now THAT's torture.

3. War Criminal? Now you're REALLY out in left field!

You just make a bizarre claim (throw your underwear against the wall) with absolutely nothing to support it. Please, enlighten us...what makes Dick Cheney a "war criminal"...other than he's a Republican?

 

Yakpoo, everything you've said is correct. Forget trying to tell that to the low-information liberals on this forum, however. They're stuck in liberal-la-la-land and can't hear a word you're saying. They're brain-dead zombies who wouldn't know an independent thought if it bit them in the ass. I've shed the light of truth on them countless times and they scurry like roaches. Stick around for awhile; you'll see...

View attachment 1988

BTW, I'd love to see them dispute Valerie Plame, Cheney "torture" techniques and the so-called Cheney "War Criminal" moniker with you. They can't. Watch. I doubt they will challenge you at all. I suspect they'll just hide like... well... cockroaches.

 

Oy.

 

...go ahead, we're waiting.

 

Possibly because he is basically saying that Valerie Plame wasn't outed by Cheney personally but we know where the orders came from, the same people that commuted scooter's sentence, he also argues that Cheney himself never tortured anybody, a fairly lazy and lame point, and finally, he didn't even bother offering anything of substance against the idea that Cheney is a legitimate war criminal, he just said that I have no proof. There is plenty of proof by multiple international standards. If Cheney and the rest weren't war criminals, why was this necessary...

In court papers filed today, the United States Department of Justice requested that George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice and Paul Wolfowitz be granted procedural immunity in a case alleging that they planned and waged the Iraq War in violation of international law.

The fact that people in important political positions are not held accountable for what they did in office isn't proof that they didn't do wrong as Yaky seems to be arguing here. I don't bother with obviously inane posts even ones posted by your latest man crush. Deal with it.

 

As I said, Yakpoo, they can't dispute anything you said.

 

As I said, get over your man crush.

 

What does this have to do with Zimmerman?