Why “Unmasking” matters

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JohnHamilton, May 15, 2020.

  1. JohnHamilton
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    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    In 1975 Democratic Senator Frank Church of Idaho sponsored legislation that put some important curbs upon the government’s ability to spy on American citizens. As a matter of policy, our national security agencies are allowed to tap into telephone calls that are made to overseas areas. No court orders are required, which is not the case for tapping into domestic communications.

    Church recognized that this policy gave the government broad powers in its ability to spy on American citizens. If those powers were not kept in check, government could use information from those calls for more than just national security. Specifically, government office could use that information for political purposes, and if those officials were dirty, they could use for a variety of unlawful activities, such as blackmail. The then director of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, was famous for maintaining dossiers on famous Americans, like Dr. Marin Luther King, that he had in reserve to blackmail them if it served his purposes.

    Church called for the expunging all such phone calls that did not pertain to national security. The only way they could be “unmasking” which could only be done by high government officials in special cases. It was not intended to be a standard procedure. These laws were intended to make up for the fact that court orders were not required to tap into international calls.

    It's been said here that there are thousands of “unmaskings,” and that makes it right. No, it doesn’t. If the government is able to spy on its citizens with no checks and balances, those are the first steps to a police state. Americans should be concerned when unmasking is done for political purposes and sanction those office holders who engage in it.
     
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  2. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    I too, despise the Patriot Act. I can't believe the bipartisan support it gets. Sometimes it feels like nobody in Washington is representing our interests.

    No party is free from guilt in this one either. Both the house and senate just renewed it. The biggest blow was the failure to pass a bipartisan amendment to block intelligence agencies from gathering U.S. citizen's web browsing history without a warrant.

    Edit: I call out the Patriot act specifically because I believe that to be where the powers of these agencies truly got out of hand
     
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  3. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    What is conveniently forgotten here is that the intelligence community was monitoring Russia interference in the 2016 election, not Obama. Also, the intelligence community wasn't monitoring the Trump Campaign or Flynn, they were monitoring Russian communications. The only reason Flynn got caught up was because he was talking to the Russians like so many other Trump Campaign officials from Manafort to Flynn to Trump himself. In fact, a total of 272 contacts between Trump’s team and Russia-linked operatives have been identified, including at least 38 meetings. And we know that at least 33 high-ranking campaign officials and Trump advisers were aware of contacts with Russia-linked operatives during the campaign and transition, including Trump himself. None of these contacts were ever reported to the proper authorities. Instead, the Trump team tried to cover up every single one of them.

    So saying that Obama spied on the Trump campaign for political purposes, I might remind you that the Obama Administration was one of the least corrupt Administrations in modern history, is so nonsensical, that you have to excuse countless forays into overt espionage by the Trump Team before you can even think about looking at what the intelligence community did in 2016. And I'd say that they were doing what they were supposed to do. All 17 of them.

    Since the 2016 election shit-show, Trump has continued to collaborate with Russia, Ukraine, China, and who knows what other countries in order to smear his opponents. It's not like he doesn't have a long track record of being willing to enlist foreign interference in our election process. It's kind of his thing.
     
  4. JohnHamilton
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    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Gee, @JoeNation you really missed your calling in life. You should have been a spy novel writer. Even when the evidence has now shown your party wasted three years and millions of taxpayer dollars on “The Adam Schiff Lie” you continue to spout the same nonsense.

    Why would you do that?

    The answers are quite simple.

    First, you have a stinker of a presidential candidate. You have senile old man who can barely put two coherent sentences together. He didn’t amount much as a candidate in 1988 when he plagiarized a speech by a British politician and couldn’t even survive the Iowa Caucus. Now he’s worse.

    Second, your campaign has to sell socialism and permanent hard times to the American people. That’s hard sell if you have career or a business and are willing to work for a living. If you are a PO’d snowflake still living in your daddy’s basement, it sounds pretty good because that is what you learned while you were getting your now useless college degree.

    Bottom line: Your campaign has no positive message for a better future for America. It will be more of how we have lived for the past two months, and that is unsustainable.

    And why do you to sell this slop and hate Trump so much?

    You are a communist and you really PO’d that Trump derailed the socialist train that was on the inevitable march to communism. You figured Obama got it started, and Hillary was going to close the deal during her eight years as president. As long you paid her enough and kept telling her she that is greatest President since FDR, the former “Goldwater Girl” would fall right into line.

    And then she lost, and you were mad as hell.

    Then you got even angrier when the Trump got the economy up, running and working for so many people. That really caused you to blow you stack.

    Now you figure you might get there with mentally impaired Biden as a figure head, and Elizabeth Warren, you first choice for president, running the show.

    Bernie Sanders was too up-front about what he was. That’s why he wasn’t your first choice. You could never deny that he is a socialist because he’s made that plain for years.

    But Warren … she’s slick … She’s from Harvard. That makes her “a genius” in the eyes of gullible people.

    She is really no more than a second-rate liar, and most people have seen that with her phony claims about her race and her lies about why she “lost” a teaching position.

    My greatest fear is the Democrats will find a way to dump Biden. It still could happen, but good luck getting the "Bernie Bros" to support you after you have railroaded them two times in a row.

    So here is a vintage button for you. All you have to do is change the year.

    Draft Cuomo.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  5. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

  6. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    Rocks and glass houses my friend. Consider this transcript of Trump on the Iran nuclear deal:

    Also: Trump_2000.svg.png
     
  7. SmalltownMN
    Doh

    SmalltownMN Active Member

    Wow Joe, nice pictures again. Too bad they have nothing to do with actual facts. What a clown you are.
     
  8. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    More canned crap from the king of cans.

    I hit the nail on the head when I noted that you are a communist, didn't I Joe?

    I've read enough of you posts about how American is a war mongering, "imperialist nation” to recognize the rhetoric. It’s straight from the 1950s, ‘60s, ‘70s and ‘80s Soviet playbook.

    Then you doubled down by posting boring talk feast between a bunch of British socialist economists who rejected Adam Smith’s work The Wealth of Nations which is one of the classic cornerstones to economic freedom.

    “Capitalism is about greed.”

    Then the worst you can say about China is that “It’s a secretive society,” after they lied about the nature and severity of the Corona Virus.

    Does that sum it up pretty well Joe?

    It’s hard to find out whom you like, but you dropped the shoe when you said you liked Warren. It’s well known that she and Sanders are on the same page.

    I just want to people know what they dealing with when they read your posts, Joe. If they are communist or socialists and share your vision, so be it.

    If not then they need to know that you don’t the best interests of this nation at heart. That you part of an international movement which wants to impose government control of the means of production upon the world.

    I do not agree with that model, and I’m not going stand by and let you get away with what you have been up to without people knowing your motives.
     
  9. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    I mean, a few of those things aren't necessarily fair to to call Trump's fault, but they are all objectively true.
     
  10. SmalltownMN
    Doh

    SmalltownMN Active Member

    Here, I can find stuff on the internet too, Joe. Read this that is actually a rebuttal to your cutesy picture:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...stock-market-was-smooth-sailing-idUSKBN21B3K9

    Perhaps people would take you a little more seriously if you didn't post nonsensical pictures.
    When the dust settles from Covid-19, the final tally dwarfs the numbers combined of all these other viruses that your dumbass picture refers to (one of which didn't even happen during Obama's presidency).
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
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  11. JohnHamilton
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    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    It has a name. It’s call propaganda. It’s Joe’s main stock and trade.

    There is going to be hell to pay because this huge deficit, small business failures and the resulting unemployment and job dislocations. A lot of people are going to be really hurting.

    Instead trying to make things better, Nancy Pelosi is doubling down with money for pot (cannabis) dealers and more money for the arts.

    What is wrong with her? How can she not see that we need to control spending as much as is humanly possible?

    If the Democrats wish to be taken serious then they should act in a responsible manner.
     
  12. SmalltownMN
    Doh

    SmalltownMN Active Member

    I don't find your words to be helpful at all, Gene. I don't put a lot of credence into things told to me by people who might have their own issues with honesty and transparency. In one post you called out that you're 26, yet your profile card states that you're 31. I'm 46 years old and my profile card says so. You're also one of the people that lurks like a troll. When I am online, people can see that I'm online, I don't have anything to hide from. Why do you seek to not be open and honest? As stated previously, you dance around a lot. Even Joe, who I don't agree with much, at least has meat and potatoes to what he's saying most of the time (other than the childish pictures). A lot of what I see come from you is marshmallows. When you're ready to come out of your mommy's basement and sit at the adult table, let us know.
     
  13. JohnHamilton
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    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    I am retired and 71 years old. What you see is what you get with me. I’ve spent a lot time with collectibles, history and economics. I was a coin dealer at one time, and I worked for two Fortune 500 companies and a major insurance company. I better off financially than most, but I am comfortable, not rich. I have an accounting degree and an MBA.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
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  14. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    It sounds like you two are critiquing your competition and hilariously believing that your opinions carry some kind of unwarranted weight as you boomer-splain your own dubious credentials. It really just comes off as self-righteous blathering from this side of the aisle but by all means, please continue your self-aggrandizing circle-jerk.
     
  15. SmalltownMN
    Doh

    SmalltownMN Active Member


    You're not immune from my well founded criticism, Joe. You lurk in the shadows as well and though you speak of having grown children, I don't really believe it as you come off as an immature individual quite often on here. Either that or you've grown yourself into a self righteous, entitled, belligerent, man-child.
     
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  16. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    No, I have laid out my very honest evaluation of you. If you don’t like it, tough. You have seldom been honest here about your views, unless it’s about hating Trump.
     
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  17. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    @JohnHamilton no comment? The point is maybe lay off Biden for things Trump is just as guilty of. Go off policy and outcomes please. Which I am fully aware Biden has a very critiquable record on.
     
  18. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    I do not open most links because of virus concerns, which have cost me a great deal of money through the years. One time it was so bad that my computer technician had to take my disk top to his office. If you want me to comment, put it in your own words. That means more anyway. You need to think for yourself and express your views in your words.

    I was tempted to post a link here earlier in the week to respond to the Flynn case. In the end, I said no. I will not be a hypocrite.
     
  19. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    Hmm? I attached a trump quote from the Iran nuclear deal announcement and a picture of a Trump 2000 logo from when he ran then. Sorry if it's not all coming through. No mystery links intended.

    Also some irony and a tip for anyone unaware, this website itself is insecure. Ever see that link at the top of the page warning about this site? It's because it's running on old website architecture (http vs. the more modern https). Makes the website itself more vulnerable to hacking. Shouldn't cause you much trouble, just maybe don't use your password here on any other websites.
     
  20. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Boys! Boys! Don't fight over me. You can both be morons. You can share the honor. No need to get competitive with each other. Geesh!
     
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