POOF! A huge chunk of stock market gains under Trump are gone

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JoeNation, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Analysis by Christine Romans, CNN Business
    Updated 3:44 PM ET, Thu March 12, 2020


    New York (CNN Business)Wall Street's love affair with President Donald Trump is officially over.
    The president's prime time speech failed to assuage fears about coronavirus. It did not outline the US strategy to test for and treat it. And two of his major points had to be walked back later.
    "Stocks are cratering on the president's remarks from the White House," economist Chris Rupkey of MUFG Union Bank wrote to his clients.

    Dow futures slid as many as 700 points when the president announced a 30-day ban on travel from Europe to the United States, including trade and cargo.

    An hour later when Trump clarified his scripted speech -- correcting the record that the travel ban was for foreign passengers only, not Americans, and that it didn't include cargo -- the market fell even further.
    The view? The travel ban was bad enough. But the clean up showed that the administration still doesn't have a handle on the threat or a plan.

    The president "took coronavirus social distancing to the max by saying he was barring entry to the country from citizens from the European continent for thirty days," Rupkey wrote. "Didn't the Great Depression get started by countries putting up trade barriers between themselves and the rest of the world?"
    The president also told the nation co-payments for the treatment of coronavirus would be covered by their insurance companies. Except the White House had to walk that back to say insurers were required to cover co-payments for testing only, not treatment. There was only cursory mention of expanding testing (something most Americans are concerned about) and nothing about how prepared hospitals are for surge capacity (something public health officials want to know.)
    If the speech was meant to show resolve and leadership and calm markets, it was a swing and a miss.

    "The psychology of this got much worse instead of better because of this speech," says David Axelrod, who wrote speeches for President Barack Obama. Axelrod says the blueprint for an oval office address in a crisis is 1) be truthful 2) be open about the scope of the problem 3) clearly outline the plan to address it.
    "The president failed on all fronts last night," Axelrod said.
    Markets agreed.

    Stocks fell deeper into bear market territory at the opening bell Thursday, with the selling so ferocious, it triggered a circuit breaker to pause trading. In just 23 days, the S&P 500 (SPX) tumbled from record high to down 20% -- something that took 274 days during the 2008 bear market.
    On February 19, the S&P 500 was up 49% during Trump's time in office. Now it's up just over 10%.
    Investors loved his deregulation and corporate tax cuts. His policies nursed along an aging economic expansion, pulling the Obama recovery into a new decade. But the love affair appears to be over -- as seen in an 8,000 point dive in the Dow in just a few weeks.
    Coronavirus is a classic "Black Swan" event: an unforeseen market surprise. Trump has no control over the event itself, only his response to it. How a president handles such events is a test of leadership, teamwork and messaging.

    Economist Mohammed el-Erian says a global recession is "very, very likely" and that the US response needs to be more robust.

    "It has to come across as a whole-of-government approach. There is a conductor, everybody in the orchestra knows what they're doing, and they're coordinated," says el-Erian, chief economic adviser at Allianz.
    "Day one is about stress, things like free testing, covering the uninsured, paid emergency leave, paid medical leave, strengthening unemployment insurance," el-Erian says. "Phase two is about following that up. Once you've built the bridge, the immediate bridge, with well-focused stimulus and infrastructure spending that promotes long-term growth."

    "You need a very clear plan," el-Erian adds.

    The White House has waived the tax filing deadline for most individuals and deferred taxes for affected businesses. And Congress has passed an $8.3 billion emergency funding package that provides money for testing and funds for community health.

    But Congress runs the risk of infuriating investors if a cogent plan doesn't materialize, says Greg Valliere, chief financial strategist for AGF Investments.

    "A payroll tax cut looks unlikely...but embarrassed lawmakers may pass a modest bill in the next couple of days that would aid virus victims and help small businesses," Valliere wrote in a note to clients. "Whether a House-Senate conference committee can agree quickly on this bill is unclear, but there's a growing chance of a compromise by tomorrow."

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  2. toughcoins

    toughcoins Well-Known Member

    Yup . . . gleeful, are ye?
    JohnHamilton likes this.
  3. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Yep, he really gets off on other people’s misery.
  4. toughcoins

    toughcoins Well-Known Member

    My sense is that it's really all that he lives for . . . more government spending, runaway inflation so he can watch his stack of PMs shoot through the roof.

    Conversely, while sitting on a comfortable stack of my own, I support strengthening of the dollar and of American individuals by shrinking government size and interference.
  5. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Fortunately, I am not obsessed with money the way Republicans are. I don't punch down at the less fortunate people the way Republicans consistently do. I don't support a president that surrounds himself with the business cabal during a health crisis the way Republicans do. In other words, before you criticize anyone for greedy aspirations, look at yourseves first. The mirror is waiting.
  6. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Hypocrite …

    All you want is power over people. You are most greedy person on these boards because you want to control every aspect of people’s lives, except, of course, abortion. You want a government that runs the health care system, regulates and controls energy use and stands ready to step in on any issue when it sees fit with a rubber stamp judiciary that will do nothing to curtail it.

    You should be concerned about FISA abuse, but you don’t give a damn about that so long as the FBI and Justice Departments are doing your political bidding. You are not concerned if Federal law enforcement agencies get involved in politics so long as the Democrat Party benefits from it.

    You won't respond to any of these issues because you don't have the brains or the courage. If you do respond, it will be some canned response that you found on another website.
  7. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Wrong. I just want your wife's pension.
  8. toughcoins

    toughcoins Well-Known Member

    Your criticism of those obsessed with money is misplaced.

    I can't begin to count the number of times I've witnessed "underprivileged" individuals not having the time or energy to educate themselves, to improve their skills, or to increase their productivity, while having more than enough time and energy to collect their long-awaited benefits checks. I long for the day when such people finally realize and accept that pushing one's self produces a better life than depending a bloated government.

    Unfortunately, as long as pandering liberal politicians continue to hand people financial lollipops in exchange for votes, the dependency state will continue to grow and we'll grow deeper in debt until the system exhausts itself and completely implodes. The federal government WAS NOT formed to make people's lives easier. It was formed to protect the states and to resolve disputes between them.

    Liberals have taken things too far, and we're long overdue for a retraction. Either we can choose to do away with the nanny state voluntarily, or the natural course of events will do it for us.
    JohnHamilton likes this.
  9. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Is that he best you can do?

    Like I said, you never discuss the issues. You are just a troll who comes here with hate and canned responses. You are an example of why the Democratic Party is so pathetic.
  10. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    I am not against all of the social programs. The “domestic tranquility” clause in the Preamble to the Constitution can be interpreted as justification for that concept. The trouble is the Socialist Democrats take it too far.

    I don’t have a problem with paying unemployment compensation to a man or woman who has worked for many years who lose their job. My brother-in-law is in the fix right now, and he’s over 60. I don’t have a problem aiding the aged, the infirmed and those who have handicaps that limit their ability to earn a living. A compassionate society has an obligation to help these people.

    I do have a problem with giving to those who are sound of mind and body who, as AOC says, “don’t feel like working.” That is one of many areas where she and I disagree. They deserve a kick in the ass. We should not be expected to subsidize laziness. If you don’t feel like working, don’t tell me that you deserve to have great life on the dole.
    Mopar Dude and toughcoins like this.
  11. toughcoins

    toughcoins Well-Known Member

    I don’t disagree with you . . . I just tend to push myself hard, which I feel we all should do before we start pushing others to make due for us.

    The Domestic tranquility clause references keeping the peace, not making the people comfortable. I have no problem with people being comfortable, but I do not favor the government guaranteeing them comfort at the expense of others.

    Unemployment benefits are administered by the states, funded by employers, and are not a federal responsibility, nor should they be.

    I am a civil structural engineer by education, a registered professional engineer in mechanical engineering since 1990, and lost my managerial position during a RIF last year as I approached 60 years of age. I admittedly collected unemployment benefits for several weeks (yes, from the state). Rather than hanging it up which would have been easy enough to do, I took a job in the plastics engineering field, and am drinking from a firehose right now. I am under a lot of pressure to perform, and coming up to speed very well, but it takes a lot of time and energy to do so. Not only am I diversifying my skills, but I am intellectually stimulated by this challenge.

    Maybe most would consider me foolish to put so much energy into change so late in my career, but I owe it to myself and to my family to do what I can. Another benefit is that it sets a good example for those around me. My daughter has a fantastic work ethic, and I hate to think how lazy she might have ended up, had I not been a good example for her.

    I see too many people running from change, and not enough pushing their limits. We all confront demanding situations in life, but it has become trendy to buckle under to the pressure and look for someone else to make life easier. We need to reverse that trend, or being an American will become a race to the bottom.

    I hope this post doesn’t seem elitist, but I feel it is important for all to consider the state of atrophy our nation is headed for.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
    Mopar Dude and JohnHamilton like this.
  12. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Honestly, when you start off with negative baseless insults as your first post, why would I care what your opinion is?
    You must really think you are important. I don't.
  13. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    I don’t you are important either, thank goodness. People like you are part of the problem. You can’t discuss any of the major issues. You are so obsessed with Trump, you can’t think straight.

    Some liberals ask, “Why can’t we just get along?” Reading you posts concerning Trump is one of the answers. Your tone and level of hate make your contributions here irrelevant.

    Here is an issue. Are you happy with what went on with the FBI, the Justice Department and the FISA Court? If the Republicans had done that, I would be PO’d. An FBI agent lied, and there is no debate about that. It was the first steps toward a police state. You can’t mix politics and police power without threatening the republic.

    How about James Comey? Are you a a fan of his? Hillary might be right. He might have cost her the election with his on again, off again investigations. Do you think that’s an issue? Do think that an appointed official should have that much influence over a presidential election?

    These are honest issues, but they can’t get your attention. “Trump sucks!” That sums up most of what you have to say.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
  14. toughcoins

    toughcoins Well-Known Member

    Honestly back at you Joe, you've never cared what my opinion is. That's okay, really, I accept that there are people in this world who never will get it.

    Self-important? I don't think you often see me spouting about myself. Quite unusually for me, I mentioned something about myself to illustrate a reluctance to capitulate and go the easy route to retirement, which I could have handled financially, instead demonstrating a willingness to reinvest my time and energy in a new career.

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