Orwellian: Ardent Covidiots Vow NOBODY WILL TAKE ARE FREEDOM AWAY

Discussion in 'Politics' started by FryDaddyJr, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    The U.S. map is now blazingly, dizzyingly red: 11.6 million COVID cases, over 250,000 dead, with experts describing "aggressive, unrelenting, expanding broad community spread" and an expected "deterioration" that could see deaths nearly double this winter to about 440,000, roughly the number of Americans killed in World War ll. In recent weeks, the pandemic is especially ravaging the Midwest, resulting in a catastrophic lack of beds. It's also hit prisons hard, accounting for 93% of inmate deaths and infection rates 620% higher than the national average; Texas has the most cases and deaths - many of inmates eligible for parole - with California, Ohio, Florida close behind. Despite the unprecedented carnage - COVID has already killed far more Americans than our combined deaths in World War 1, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan - the stupid remains strong in us thanks to the criminal incompetence and rabid denial of the impeached Loser-In-Chief and his White House goons. Having decided to make Thanksgiving the latest fabricated COVID political battleground, Barbie Press Secretary Wednesday rejected experts' common sense advice on limiting holiday gatherings and called for killing our elders "the American way." "A lot of the guidelines you're seeing are Orwellian," she pouted. "We don't lose our freedom in this country." "Ooh freedom!" clamors a right-wing media eager to rant about the "war on Thanksgiving" as the latest libs' hoax. Fox News' vile Laura Ingraham did some serious brow-wrinkling and fact-twisting in order to trash mitigation measures and their "SEVERE consequences" before turning it over to guest Dr. Ramin Oskoui; he praised her for "beautifully" proving the obvious: "Social distancing doesn’t work, quarantining doesn’t work, masks don’t work."

    Planet Earth to Fox: You are killing people with your gonzo talking points. In recent days, more nurses, those heroes of the front lines, are speaking up about their workplace, that "horror movie that never ends." In GOP-ruled South Dakota, with the highest rate of COVID cases and deaths, a nurse described patients who still don't believe COVID is real even as they're dying of it. Instead of saying good-bye to their families, they're "still looking for something else (and) they're filled with anger and hatred." The same dogged denial is rampant at anti-mask - aka "fascist muzzle" - rallies with their incensed signs - "Wake Up Sheeple...We Will Not Comply...My Rights Are Essential...This Is War" - and, now that the government cancelled Thanksgiving, on Twitter. "A government big enough to cancel your Thanksgiving is a government that is too big," intoned failed journalist and right-wing hack Benny Johnson, to which his cohorts on the far side of the moon yelled, Yeah bro! They raged it's the same government that "cancelled Gun, Church, Oil, Police, businesses and may cancel your Christmas - it will never be enough until they control your entire life" and "Clearly there are communists trying to inflitrate America" and "Show me a warrant before you come in my house and tell me I can't have Thanksgiving with my family! Nice try! We the people=boss of America!" and "Screw the tyrants!" Some weary souls noted, "It's...an advisory" before conceding, "Common sense from a Republican is a big ask." Others celebrated natural selection - "Statistically, right now, it's the best way to get rid of you" - and irony: "Thank you, sir. I, too, am an idiot who thinks the government canceled Thanksgiving. Thank you for speaking for all of us morons." From a woman diagnosed with COVID in March: "My body is still ravaged...Every system is haywire. WEAR THE FUCKING MASK." #MasksSaveLives.

    At his latest coronavirus briefing, New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy was asked what he'd say to people who are tired of wearing masks and think they're "uncomfortable and annoying." His scorching response: "You know what's really uncomfortable and annoying? When you die."


    Enough! likes this.
  2. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    Covidiots. How appropriate.

    To those Americans who claim they have rights and other such nonsense regarding masks perhaps you should adopt a new slogan.

    That being "I'm an American and I have a right to be stupid!".

    Why? Because you are.

    Your stupidity exceeds normal parameters to excess. No one told your parents that stupid people shouldn't breed.
    You have earned the right to die a miserable death.

    Am I being too subtle?

    Now in case you ARE too stupid let me tell you something I heard on the BBC World News some time ago. It concerns a place known as Tokyo.

    Tokyo is a very large, densely populated city in a country called Japan. Following me so far?

    You don't hear about how rampant Covid is in Tokyo now do you? Why?-because wearing masks is a norm there and not just for Covid. Any nasty bug comes around and on the masks go.

    Of course Japan is a Communistic, Socialistic, Godless country right?


    As a matter of fact wearing a mask in Tokyo IS NOT EVEN REQUIRED. Common sense and common courtesy prevail.
    Two VERY foreign concepts to the just plain stupid and proud of it. America seems full of them these days.

    COMMON COURTESY. What a concept but apparently one that will never catch on the U.S

    Now here's a true story (and it's not about a lovely lady).

    I am a type 1 diabetic. I have had congestive heart failure which was not fun. I've lost count of how many times I've ended up in the hospital the past seven years and a few of those being stints in ICU.
    Yet I still have the will to live.

    Recently an acquaintance began railing on about his rights concerning masks.
    I asked him a simple question.

    "As an American do you have the right to potentially kill another American by giving that person a deadly virus?".
    I give him credit. He said he'd never thought of it that way.
    Apparently he's still mulling it over.

    In my younger, healthier days I did a lot of drywall work. Very dusty work.
    We all wore masks without hesitation to keep that nasty dust out of our lungs.

    NEVER an issue just as wearing a mask is never an issue in MANY other vocations.

    So do me a favor all of you "Americans with rights".

    Try a little bit of common sense and common courtesy.

    It's not uncomfortable at all.

    Enough! and FryDaddyJr like this.
  3. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I know you guys like to latch on to every overly dramatic story that CNN and MSNBC put on the air for your devoted consumption. But allow me to clue you in. I live in what is likely one of the reddest states on the map. People around here are God fearing staunch conservatives. And guess what?? They took down their Trump signs November 4th. The youngsters took the rebel flags off of their trucks that had all your sensitivities in a twist. And when we have to go to the grocery store, yes we do wear a mask. Not because it is demanded, but because we know it is the polite thing to do for those around us. You guys are like kids on Halloween night. Just can't wait to eat that CNN candy they dish out to ya. Well, rest assured.... We aren't quite as backward as you might like to believe. But keep it up please. We do enjoy the show y'all put on when your panties are in a twist which appears to be most all the time.
    toughcoins and c jay like this.
  4. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Randy, While I agree that there are those that love to show how superior they are for being on the right side of history, there are also those that enjoy being on the wrong side of history just as much. I think if the roles were reversed, they would simply exchange talking points. I take them all for the chest beaters they are and pay them little attention.

    But even you have to admit that the politicization of mask wearing has been propagated exclusively from the Right. I don't know how anyone paying attention could argue that point. That doesn't mean that the chest beaters are going to behave any differently on either side, but putting them aside for a minute, it's more than clear that what would protect this country better than anything is if we all were to wear masks and follow the other simple precautions laid out by the health experts, not make it a political issue.

    I saw a picture the other day of my brother-in-law, someone that could be described as a pretty ignorant Trump voter, wearing a mask in public. It gives me hope that the message is getting through in spite of the messages and the examples set that are coming from the White House.

    I guess what I am saying is that painting everyone on either side with a broad brush is what we do as political partisans but the facts don't support either side making broad all-inclusive statements. At the same time, even stereotypes are based in a little bit of reality.
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  5. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    I live in a blue pocket of a red state. I still have my DUMP TRUMP sign in the lawn. It helps remind the guy two doors down that has his assortment of American and Trump flags a flyin as well as the moron down the street in his pickumup that Trump lost.

    I DO see these people and frankly, have for quite some time.

    I'm not saying that all Trumpers don't wear masks. What I am saying is that the ones bitchin bout their rights as an American are a LOT less likely to have a Biden sticker on their car.

    Trump made fun of mask wearing.
    Biden didn't.
    Enough! likes this.
  6. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    While I am a conservative, I have never been proud of the man and have made that plain here on the forum. Thing is, most conservatives like me are just doing what they can to get on with life's daily struggles like everyone else. Its rather like lumping every motorcycle rider into being a Hell's Angel. They aren't. It's always the loudest few that create the drama that everybody else thrives on..... Hey wait a second.. I drive a pick-up!!o_O
    clembo, c jay and JoeNation like this.
  7. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

  8. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    I appreciate your outlook Mopar Dude.

    A lot of bikers in my area and I've known quite a few personally so your analogy is great.

    In my college days I worked in a gas station. Closing was always the scariest time. The station was right off the highway and prime territory for robbery and quick getaway.
    I was never robbed but two coworkers were and a worker was shot there before I started

    Damn, I just realized I worked at two gas stations where people were shot and one died.

    So anyway my security when I closed was great. Right before closing every night a bunch of bikers would stop in and buy gas and smokes.
    THEN they would hang out in the parking lot until I was done closing and headed to my car to leave.

    Great bunch of guys and NOBODY considered bothering me.

    Now as for your pick-up there's a big difference between a pick-up and a pickumup.:p

    We all need to hang tight if we're to get through this.
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  9. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    Yes, you are, you do, and you were. You supported a corrupt, nearly vegetating incompetent for president, and an unprincipled, willing-to-do-what-it-takes-to-advance socialist, eager to fill whatever role he may or may not assume.

    By the way, those are not claims of rights, they are duly recorded American rights, fought for and maintained by thousands of statesmen, millions of soldiers and hundreds of millions of citizens. I do insist on being left my choice to wear a mask or not and, despite cherishing those personal liberties, I do still wear a mask. So, don't paint those of us supporting other's right to not wear a mask as stupid.

    We are not all the same, some with greater lung capacity than others, some less susceptibile to irritation of facial skin, etc. Mask wearing is not equally tolerable for all, and you should consider that.

    You are definitely more vulnerable than the average American. I am sincerely sorry for that. I don't mean to seem insensitive but, like the rest of us, you must make your own choices to protect yourself.

    When the Human Immunodeficiency Syndrome (HIV) began spreading across the country 40+ years ago, protection among the sexually active was left for them to choose, and not mandated. People weren't being asked, "As an American do you have the right to potentially kill another American by giving that person a deadly virus?".

    People weren't told they couldn't go clubbing and hookup together, and many did. They weren't told they had to use condoms, and many didn't. They could abstain, they could use protection, or they could gamble.

    Each and every one of us has the right to protect ourselves by wearing a mask and avoiding public spaces until this virus abates. None of us has the right to insist others do the same. Even though I minimize time in public and always wear a mask outside the home, I still recognize and respect the choice of another to not do so. Apparently, you and other liberals do not.

    As a society, we paid for those personal gambles with HIV. As a society, we will do so again with COVID19.

    You can't have your cake and eat it to.

    Mask-wearing in Japan, and countrywide I might add, has far less to do with common-courtesy than you claim it does. The prevalence of incidents which mask-wearing benefited (among others, the Spanish Flu of 1918, Kanto earthquake of 1923, Flu 2 of 1934, Kobe earthquake of 1995, Tohoku earthquake and Fukushima disaster of 2011) has greatly promoted the national acceptance of masks.

    Beyond their usefulness during such disasters, other reasons for wearing them have emerged in Japanese society.

    Doubtless, consideration of others was on the minds of some wearers, but it was neither the genesis of nor the primary motivation for their use.

    Regarding common courtesy, the present subject excepted, my experience has been that most liberal Americans are impetuous and demanding, and consider common courtesy to be old-fashioned.

    Finally, I believe with all my heart that, if President Trump had issued a national mandate that all Americans wear face masks, most liberals would be defending their right to not do so.
  10. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Bull sit! That's total bull sit and you know it.
  11. Enough!

    Enough! New Member

    Comparing the situation with HIV to COVID-19 is laughable.

    HIV is transmissible by body fluids and requires considerable personal contact where exposure to or exchange of bodily fluids is likely. It is not transmissible to those around you by simply shopping for groceries or engaging in necessary and non-intimate activities of daily living or going to work at your office, as is the case with COVID-19 which spread through air.

    I live in a red state, in a very red city, and can tell you from local social media (Nextdoor) that there are a tremendous number of people here who openly rail against mask wearing and believe it makes them patriotic freedom fighters. There is just no reasoning with them and I've stopped trying. COVID-19 cases are soaring in my city and it's no mystery at all why that is the case... yet the antimaskers persist in their denial. The ICU capacity of the two hospitals teeters on full every day and the number of hospitalized COVID patients is growing at an alarming rate.
  12. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    Defend your position if you like but, while the modes of transmission are indeed different, the situations are perfectly analogous.

    When two people are involved they both have the right to protect themselves against potential infection by an unwitting carrier.

    They can avoid each other, they can protect themselves, or they can gamble.

    As I wrote before, I am not an advocate of not wearing a mask, but I am an advocate of leaving that choice to each individual.
  13. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    I see what you're saying, but I think the issue comes from the way masks mitigate spread. Unless you can get a real n95 (virtually impossible and super expensive since the start of this) the masks we use have relatively little effect to prevent infection in the wearer. Where they're key is stifling spread by infected people including asymptomatic carriers. What it boils down to is does each individual have the right to infect others?

    I also tend to agree with @Enough! that this is quite different from HIV. HIV is tough to spread even with direct contact, and the way it's spread personal choices carry a far greater role. If it's not that different from HIV, there's laws in many states against knowingly spreading it to others. Should we apply that to covid too?
    clembo and FryDaddyJr like this.
  14. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    The efficacy of widely available and inexpensive surgical masks is nearly as good as N95 masks.


    Moreover, the claim that masks are ineffective as prophylactic defenses is a fallacy. People who don't want to know the truth just don't think hard enough about how they work so well in that mode.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  15. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    Goober McCletus understands pandemics better than the scientists.
  16. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    I understand you're a little slow on the uptake, so I'll make it easy for you.

    My foregoing post isn't about pandemics. It's about masks.
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  17. c jay

    c jay Well-Known Member


    I recommend these. Please read the description in the fine print.
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  18. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    That chart actually proves my point. It's from a study looking at how different types of masks mitigate the spread of droplets, not the receipt of them.

    Here's the write up it's from https://www.researchgate.net/public...for_filtering_expelled_droplets_during_speech

    Receiving droplets seems tougher to quantify, but I'm looking currently
    c jay likes this.
  19. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    I'm familiar with the study. All that it proves to me is that the N95 masks are slightly more effective in containing outbound droplets than are ordinary surgical masks.

    I don't know that you're going to find anything, but I'd like to see a convincing study. Properly determining and controlling a realistic attack vector of the droplets may be the biggest challenge to the success of any such experiment.

    From my perspective, the single greatest oversight in the industry, and the most important element in our discussion is the following.

    Surgical masks behave like check valves in hydraulic and pneumatic systems. Not by design mind you, but as a by-product of their flexibility and how they are worn.

    Check valves pass fluids under positive pressure and block fluids against passing under negative pressure.

    When the wearer of a surgical mask exhales (positive pressure), the mask billows, opening up gaps between the face of the wearer and the edges of the mask, allowing exhaled air (and yes, droplets) to escape. This is most evident when you see a wearer with eyeglasses wrestling with fog on the inside of the glasses because warm moisture escapes the top of the mask and condenses on the cooler glass.

    Conversely, when the wearer of the mask inhales (negative pressure), the edges of the mask pull toward the face, tending to seal it at the edges and making it more difficult to inhale because the air must be drawn through the filter of the mask, and not from around it.

    Do masks perfectly mimic check valves? No, of course not, but the principle is the same, and the results, if properly investigated, would probably validate that they are more effective as defensive barriers than as containments.

    As far as I've been able to tell, all of the studies out there almost exclusively investigate containment, ignoring the defensive use. The research community has done an abysmal job of looking into the efficacy of masks against against inbound droplets. Why? Because traditionally the masks have been used in hospital environments to prevent outbound droplets from infecting a compromised surgical patient. That's where the manufacturers have made their money, so it makes sense that's the mode of use they would have funded studies for. It's high time they to look at their product differently.

    Now, consider for just a moment that all of that water vapor that would otherwise condense on the previously mentioned eyeglasses enters the atmosphere in the form of microscopic droplets every time we exhale. If two of you are alone in a confined space with one mask, and you know the other person has COVID, who would you rather wear that mask?

    From my perspective,
    if someone declines to wear a mask, they more likely pose a far greater threat to their own well-being than to yours.

    Anyone who denies this perspective without evidence to the contrary is willfully suppressing logic in favor of political preference.

    As for Diddles' comment . . . the most revered scientists I know are real eggheads, and don't have a great grasp on reality.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  20. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    no wonder toiughie worships a dolt like trump

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