Mail-in voting

Discussion in 'Politics' started by GeneWright, May 20, 2020.

  1. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    So, anyone want to take a crack at why vote by mail would be illegal and why states trying to protect their constituents with it justifies cutting off Federal funding?

    Screenshot_20200520-202206.png Screenshot_20200520-202809.png
     
  2. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    "President Donald Trump's statement is false," Jake Rollow, spokesman for the Michigan Department of State, said in a statement. "The Bureau of Elections is mailing absent voter applications, not ballots. Applications are mailed nearly every election cycle by both major parties and countless advocacy and nonpartisan organizations. Just like them, we have full authority to mail applications to ensure voters know they have the right to vote safely by mail."
     
  3. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    Of course Trump got caught lying. The tweet was taken down. Trump is a leader for morons
     
  4. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Trump should not have linked aid to Michigan to this issue. It was inappropriate for him to have done that.

    At the same time I do have concerns about 100% mail voting. In Florida my wife, and I fill out official ballots, put them in an official envelope and sign the junction between the seal and the envelope. Is there a 100% test that this ballot can’t be duplicated? This links to the issue about voting without an ID. Voter fraud should be a major issue for all Americans.
     
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  5. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    It would be a major issue, if it were happening at appreciable levels. Voter fraud itself has been documented just over 1200 times in the past 20 years with ~1100 of those individuals prosecuted. On top of that, there's never been a documented case of voter fraud impacting an election outcome.

    I could be convinced voter ID is an okay tactic, but I'd like to pair it with automatic voter registration for all citizens at 18. The first time you get a driver's license or state ID after 18, your voter registration ID could be placed on the card too.

    Then again, I worry about it becoming overly bureaucratic. I've really appreciated same day voter registration in Minnesota, and it's helped a lot of college students who turn 18 very close to the election. So, there would have to be secondary ID you could get quickly that would also count.
     
  6. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    How about facilitating obtaining IDs for all ages, not just college age people? They are required to get government services to combat fraud. Ditto for private sector services like hotel rooms and rental cars.
     
    GeneWright likes this.
  7. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Even the Republicans know that if people vote in large numbers as you would probably see with mail-in-voting, that they would never win another election. If we had mandatory voting, well, the GOP wouldn't exist after the next election.

    Both parties on the local level have found ways to manipulate voters and vote counts. Nobody could argue differently with any degree of honesty. There are always small cases of some idiot trying to sway an outcome in their favor. The best defense is to get the largest number of people to vote possible to overcome any voting irregularities if they were to occur.
     
  8. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    Hey, I'm good with it as long as it's free, easy, automatic, and universal.
     
  9. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    This is precisely the real issue. If voter IDs are a barrier to exercising a citizen’s right to vote, then we need to reform the system to obtain them.
     
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  10. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    So thinking more on this, I can't figure out why a voter ID of any kind is more secure than using the national voter registry we already have. It already requires documents indicating name and residency. Why would we need a further step?
     
  11. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    I also just had this thought relating this to some popular gun arguments (not that I personally but into those, but for those who do)

    Criminals will always find ways to get guns = criminals will always find ways to commit voter fraud

    The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is good guys with guns = the only thing that can stop a bad guy committing voter fraud is a bunch of good guys voting fairly (to drown out the impact of the fraud)

    In closing: register everyone, make election day a holiday, make voting as accessible as possible and minor cases of voter fraud will never matter. Major cases are far easier to detect (and also have never been documented to happen).
     
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  12. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    Voter fraud manifests itself in numerous ways, but two favorites are casting votes in the names of the deceased or in the names of the supposedly relocated.

    Like it or not, Photo Identification is imperative to combat those modes of fraudulent voting.
     
  13. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Got any statistics on how often voter fraud manifestes itself and how many people are unable to obtain photo ID's?
     
  14. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Your party would never support this. They want people to be able to walk in off the street, give a name without any supporting documentation and vote. What if they vote in multiple districts? Who cares? It’s all for a good cause ... spreading the Democracy, capital “D” intended.
     
  15. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    Why Joe? . . . Those numbers are irrelevant details.

    The resistance the ACLU and the Democratic Party puts up against everyone carrying a photo ID serves only one true purpose . . . Continuing to enable voter fraud. If the DNC had its way, it would make sure people couldn’t get photo IDs.

    The only thing that is important is that everyone should be able to photographically prove that they are who they claim, not only to vote, but to collect the benefits of social programs, to identify themselves to medical personnel, to emergency responders, to law enforcement, to interviewing employers, to bank cashiers, etc. Stop complaining about how unfair it is that a photo ID is required to vote, and start looking for ways to get everyone identified photographically.
     
  16. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    I'm saying the voter registration we already have works great. I'm confused on how a dedicated ID would be more effective than what we already have.
     
  17. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    Because without evidence for your claim, it just looks like you're making stuff up.
     
  18. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

  19. GeneWright

    GeneWright Active Member

    That article didn't even try to lie about how few cases of voter fraud take place. By their own database on voter fraud cases (going back to 1979) there's been just under 1300 cases in all elections nationally. There is also no documented cases of an election being swayed by voter fraud, just a vague insinuation it could happen.
     
  20. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism


    Don't try to twist this into something other than what I claimed. I stated that photo ID is needed to prevent the casting of votes to which one is not entitled.

    The numbers are irrelevant because, even if no elections had been so affected in the past, one or more could be in the future, and one is too many.

    My most important point is the one you liberals will all steer clear of. That all of the democrat energy spent fighting the photo ID requirement could instead be more productively spent finding a way to put photo IDs into the hands of those needing the benefits more easily secured with them than without them . . . Unfortunately, helping their constituents in that manner would undermine the real agenda of the Democrats.
     
    JohnHamilton likes this.

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