I’m not sure...

I’m not sure if I’ll be voting for DJT.
Admittedly I’ve come to terms that he is a hot mess, and isn’t the President I expected on November 4th 2016.
I’ll will be eligible to vote in November, the only question is, do I want to vote for either of them? The answer is no. I don’t want Joe Biden to win and I’m having serious doubts on whether DJT is deserving of a second term. I’d rather have DJT win than Joe but...neither of them uphold the standards of what I want in a President. Is the media right on every negative note against Trump, probably not. Is the right wing honest about every one of DJTs shortfalls? No

So the dilemma is, do I vote for DJT even though I don’t believe he is suitable for 21-25?

Do I vote a 3rd Party nominee that a truly believe in, even though there is no chance in that person winning?

I don’t believe in the platform of the Democrats and I don’t have full faith in the head of the Republican Party, DJT and I know that no 3rd party has a realistic chance of winning. It’s a tough choice.

 

That is a tough spot to be in. People will say that voting 3rd party is a waste of your vote (on that note I cannot wait for the day we get a ranked choice voting system!) But I don't believe it's a total waste and I think that sentiment arises from ingrained cynicism inherent in a 2 party system.

Voting for your values, while they won't get elected president, can have impact by showing the major parties what kind of policies they might look into to get your vote in the future. This is especially pronounced at the local and state levels, who usually have a much bigger impact on your life and home than the president anyway. A 3rd party candidate may not be president for a while, but there's a decent chance they could get on your city council or state legislature soon if a community shows its support for their ideals. If a large portion of a community were to go 3rd party like Jorgenson or Hawkins, it can embolden people with their ideals to make serious runs in those areas.

Is there a 3rd party candidate who resonates with you currently?

 

No I’m actually not familiar with any specific candidate but I have traditionally conservative values, so I’ll just have to do my research.

 

I am afraid that being idealistic and voting for a third party candidate in our current political machine is nothing more than a wasted vote. I am like you, CB. I believe in conservative ideals. However, I don't believe in a man that constantly embraces himself hamming it up for cameras. It is simply not presidential. I have come to see a different side of the man since Covid. One that doesn't make me particularly proud. It is quite a dilemma.

 

Sometimes you have to make a choice between two candidates who are not ideal. I wish that Trump could control his temper, tweets and mouth. He’s not Ronald Reagan, that’s for sure. Yet, I support most of what he has done, and I am committed to supporting freedom and capitalism.

The other side is a disaster. Biden is mentally unfit. The socialists, led by Bernie Sanders and AOC, are out to end freedom as we know it. Socialism has failed everywhere, and those two and their supporters think they will get it right. Rioters, looters and police haters are running unchecked in our major cities and yet the Democrats either support or ignore their behavior and threats they pose.

If elected, the Democrats will throw open our borders and give welfare and free medical care to all of them. Don’t tell me I am making this up, because all Democrats made that commitment by raising their hands a one of their debates. Open borders plus an uncontrolled welfare state will bankrupt us.

Am I 100% happy with Trump? No, but the alternative is much worse.

 

Uh huh!

 

Out of curiosity, what points in the DNC platform do you find most egregious? Or is it Biden/Harris personally you take issue with?

 

derp

 

They don’t have a platform yet since they have not had a convention. As for the worst they want to do, that’s a tie between open borders, high taxes, killer regulations, ignoring crime and the the Green New Deal. It’s program for disaster, but I know your little professors in college have programmed you to advocate the whole thing.

 

I'd thought perhaps he was referring to the draft released at the end of July. If you're scared of links, it should be the top option when google searching "DNC platform 2020"

DNC 2020 Platform draft

Funny, I can't seem to find the parts on open borders, the Green New Deal, or ignoring crime.

High taxes are subjective. I do see portions about tax credits for low income families and first time home buyers though, and higher taxes on the super wealthy so we can stop spiralling into debt and afford to give all Americans a better quality of life.

"Killer" regulations is both subjective and vague, I'm not sure how to touch that one. But you're welcome to look through the draft and pick out your favorites!

 

I am with @JohnHamilton on this one. Regulations are a death knell to business. And the Democrats have been very open about that. All these things that we take for granted without realizing it... Cheap gas, affordable electricity, comfy paychecks.... Will all be history within 12 months of a democratic led White House. Commerce will seize up like rusty gears. I know it isn’t popular for left leaning folks to buy into trickle down economics. But fact is business doesn’t flow unless the people that have money are spending that money. It does in fact start at the top and works its way down to us working folk through commerce. Tax them you say? That’s fine, but all that means is your elected leaders will spend it instead of you. I will cough up a hundred bucks to everyone here that disagrees if the Dems are elected and gasoline isn’t four bucks a gallon within 18 months.

 

I don’t care about the PR they put on the Internet. What matters is what they in response to what is happening and how they react to it. They are also trying get Biden and Harris labeled as “moderates” while Biden has AOC write his environmental policies and Harris is revealed to be the most liberal member of the Senate, even more liberal than Sanders. She has called for defunding the police. All of these “moderate” claims are to get your ticket elected. Listen to their policies and reactions to events, not their PR.

Gene, you want these guys and agree with them. I don’t because I’m not a socialist.

 

"We will never accept political gridlock as our fate." DNC Platform
How is that working out today.

 

Sorry to do this, but these claims are demonstrably untrue.

Gas in Obama's last 3 years plus Trump's 1st year (red), mostly recovered from the 2008 recession. It ends at ~2.25, but averaged between 2.00 and 2.75 for most of the last 2 years.



Gas under Trump's first 2.5 years and Obama's last year.



Electricity, more unstable now, but still going up the same as it has for years:



Wages, median family income, rises pretty steadily until 2016, then begins steady rise again. Before covid, we finally made it back to pre-2008 recession levels. It's not like the rise was suddenly exponential under Trump, so how can we say our paychecks have become any better for Republican policies than if we just did the same things Obama was doing?

 

I appreciate your tact and your factually based argument. The difference is that in our current climate the line that has been indelibly drawn in the sand. Throughout the history of our nation, there has always been compromise. We sometimes move more left and sometimes more right but we always landed at a reasonable compromise... Compromise is no more in 2020. Blame Trump, blame Pelosi, blame Santa Claus. It makes no never mind because compromise is as extinct as T-Rex.... I assure you as sure as the sun will come up tomorrow, that radical will be the new normal. And expensive gas will only be the beginning of our comfy lifestyles going the way of the dodo bird.

 

That doesn't even make any sense. Democrats have pushed pretty consistently for green alternatives. In other words, less gas usage. Less fossil fuel usage for industry. Less coal. Less natural gas. All these things will and have created a huge glut of oil driving down gas prices.

Republicans on the other, hand have increased our reliance on fossil fuels at ever turn. They eliminate CAFE standards. They cancel wind, solar, and other renewable tax credits in support of the oil and power companies. They deny climate change in an effort to prop up fossil fuels. They build pipelines. They do everything in their power to use as much fossil fuel as they can and increase our reliance on it. If anyone is going to increase the price of gas, it will be Republicans and their fossil fuel friends. Your augment makes no sense.

 

That’s a great question. Obviously the Democratic and Republican parties sound great on paper, however I find issues with the ideas such as relaxed immigration policies (while I do support pathway to citizenship for illegals currently residing in the USA) and the large overhaul of our health care system, I don’t support the large increase of minimum wage.

 

Thanks for the response! Those are fair points of contention, they've come to be fairly non-negotiable with the DNC.

Have you ever taken the political compass test? I like to take it once every few years to see where I'm trending. It's nice to get a mapped out view of how left/right you fall in terms of social and fiscal issues on separate planes.

If you use reddit there's a neat subreddit about discussions on these maps and the political philosophy that best fits your position. Pretty sure it's just r/politicalcompass but they look at several different tests for measuring your political tendencies

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

You get results on a map like this where authoritarian/libertarian applies to social issues and left/right for economic issues

 

I’ve done it a while ago, let me retake it and see where I lie with my new considerations.