Here's the Transcript that "sparked" the insurrection

Discussion in 'Politics' started by c jay, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. c jay
    Amused

    c jay Well-Known Member

    But that is what is listed in Article 1 of HR34 (Note: HR40 is the one that passed but has not been posted by congress) so I am having to an earlier version HR34 as a reference.
     
  2. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    Importantly, I never supported violence against people. In fact, I regularly called out the brutalization of the protestors by the police.
     
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  3. c jay
    Amused

    c jay Well-Known Member

    And Joe is a crook and a pervert.
    Neener neener neener And conservatives are smarter than liberals.

    This Playground debate is brought to you by Mrs. Jones 1st Grade
    Keep all your political debates STUPID with Finger Pointer® by STUPID
     
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  4. c jay
    Amused

    c jay Well-Known Member

    If you don't fight for your ideals, then you won't have a country. If you read the speech, he was talking about propping up the weaker Republicans with "the pride and boldness that they need to take back our country." A vote to challenge the results of the electoral congress which was due to take place after the speech. It was allowed in the constitution and had about a zero chance of passing. It was sidelined because some very stupid people did some very stupid things.

    And if it was a call to storm the Capitol, how come all the "strong Republicans" didn't charge to open the doors to let the mob in so we could all sing Lee Greenwood songs.

    In other news Article 2 was............ UKRAINE!!!! JFC you have got to be kidding me.
     
  5. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    I won't dive off too far into conspiracy yet, but there are accusations being investigated of at least 3 congressman working with the stop the steal rally organizer to get info on how to break in and where to go. I do want to make it doubly clear here though that I'm reserving judgement for evidence.
     
  6. c jay
    Amused

    c jay Well-Known Member

    If there were bad players, I think it should have a serious looked over. Also, Capitol Police were way off their game. I hate conspiracy theories because the tend to blow-up and go too far. A lot of the times it's incompetence coupled with a few Bozo's talking crap over a beer that turns into a bad idea.
     
  7. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I can agree with that. Until there's strong evidence/confessions, Hanlon's razor is the safest bet.
     
  8. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    You didn't speak out against sucker-punching counter-protesters and police . . .

    You didn't criticize beating a police officer with a trash can . . .

    You didn't decry setting fire to a police station with occupants inside . . .
     
  9. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    What do you want?

    It was a weird time. Still is in fact. Some of it felt justified given the massive retaliation and later, instigation, by law enforcement. Was that right? I don't know.

    There's a bit of a false equivalency here too in that the motivation behind the action matters. Riots over racial injustice/murder by the state vs. riots over losing an election and being lied to about it repeatedly are both wrong, but they're not the same.
     
  10. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism


    What do I want? . . . What do you want? . . . Do you really want a nation where people will be violent, just because they believe passionately in their cause? Right or wrong, liberal or conservative, "justified" or not . . . that is what you supported.

    False equivalency is that all-too-common liberal copout . . . violence is violence, and justified only in the defense of oneself or of others in immediate danger.

    While I don't endorse either the violent actions on Capitol Hill or of last summer, if those becoming violent in either case are doing so because of what they believe, and how passionately they feel about it (not what someone else told them to do, or even implied they should do), they feel impelled to action just the same. Their lack of clarity in that passion is what separates them from those of us better able to step back and reconsider our motivations and responses.

    The broad-based liberal indifference to the violence last summer normalized bad behavior and set the stage for similar behavior going forward, whether in support of their beliefs or not.

    People like those violent rioters are not normal, are given to violent outbursts, and should be jailed, separated from society for their extreme actions. You should not have tolerated the violence last summer, yet you did. You allowed your politics to influence your reactions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  11. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    I don't, and you make some valid points. If I may try to explain my point of view, there's a couple factors that may have lead me to be overzealous at times.

    1. The violence from the summer protests were relatively small in terms of deadliness, participants in any given protest, and in terms of protests that turned violent at all. I therefore found it very frustrating that many on the right were trying to discredit the whole thing based on the few. I may not respect this president as a person, but it's still disheartening to hear the hateful things the office of the president was saying about the whole movement, accusing random people of being terrorists, and spreading conspiracies about it.

    2. I also still firmly believe the vast majority of the violence was instigated by the police. They may not have "started it" initially, but as things went on, the pre-emptive strikes became more and more common and forceful. This made it all the worse because the protests were about police brutality and overreach in the first place.
     
  12. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    Gene... I like you. You are a very level headed guy. I live in a very quiet family oriented area. We have little outright violence that takes place around here..... When the protestors decided to march in my town, I was met by a welcoming committee intent on running me off the road. I was simply driving home from work. That certainly could have been a deadly incident...... As I watched a live news feed that evening, I saw a policeman who was simply standing post. Hands at his side with a smile on his face when I saw an item hurled at him, hit him in the head and he collapsed. A woman walking her dog stopped and knelt down next to him when a group approached and began kicking her dog senseless. I still cannot get that dogs screams out of my head. And this was just one day in my town....... Now honestly, I get just a bit miffed at the left painting last summers protests as some nicely organized group of folks with one or two malcontents in their midst. They weren't like that at all. And no amount of saying so makes it so. Don't buy into it. Last summers events were marred by violent mobs, these were not peaceful protestors. This is the same as Bill Clinton lying about Monica. Tell the lie enough until everyone believes it. You are smarter than that.
     
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  13. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Did you see the video of the crowd at his event chanting, "Fight for Trump!" "Fight for Trump!" "Fight for Trump!" And Trump simply smiled before he scurried off to the safety of the WH to watch the melee on TV with glee.
     
  14. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I did.... The difference for me is that I didn't embrace nor did I give quarter to the attackers. I am reviled by them.
     
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  15. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism


    Sure Joe, try and lay this at Trump's feet again.

    And how many of AOC's, Sanders', Pelosi's, Schumer's, Waters' and your ilk just grinned with satisfaction when BLM and ANTIFA and others acted out violently last summer?
     
  16. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member


    you said you quit.
     
  17. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I did. Was a bit worried over the outspoken conservative folks that have lost services since last week. But then I thought better of it. And besides, I wouldn't want to make things too easy for you.
     
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  18. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    I know it can feel that way, especially with how the news chose to portray it, but by the numbers, it actually was incredibly peaceful.

    Over 7000 protests across the country saw around 19 or so deaths, and around 93% of demonstrations not having any signs of violence against people or property at all. I suppose people protesting and nothing happening out of the ordinary isn't very news worthy giving an altered perception of the situation.

    19 is way too many, and unacceptable, but we can't discredit the whole thing over that. What matters most, the perpetrators were brought to justice.
     
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  19. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    I think you missed me
     
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