Guthrie, Oklahoma: The Original, Current, & True Capital of Oklahoma

Howdy peeps,

I thought I'd liven this forum up a bit with sum real Old West Politics and the Greatest Land Swindling Scheme in the History of the Wild West, all orchestrated by members of a state legislature and even the Governor was involved, besides the Attorney General of the State. Why don't any of you know the truth about Oklahoma?




The United States Supreme Court Case you'll need to read, to understand this discussion, is called Coyle vs. Smith, 221 U.S. 559 (1911):

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=221&page=559

The fatal flaw in the court's decision that day is the power to decide where one's capital will be, that power is a power indicative of the state but the use of the word state in that situation does not include the legislature, only the People have the power to decide where their capital will be, not the legislature, so the use of the word state is in reference to the People only, not the legislature. Furthermore, a People of a state cannot exist as a state unless they declare where their capital shall reside and the place to do that is within the state constitution, wherein the framers of that document went to great lengths to keep that fact out of the constitution proper itself, as explained in the facts in the case, but no amount of legal macgyvering can place that matter into the legislative hands. That power is a power of the People of that state and only those People may decide where their capital shall and will be, the legislature may not decide that important matter for the People.

Thus, in conclusion, the high court primarily erred by allowing the Oklahoma State Legislature to legislatively move the capital of Oklahoma from Guthrie to Oklahoma City, since the power to do that resides in the People and only the People. Secondly, the high court erred as well when it comes to the Equal Footing Doctrine, whereas Congress had the power to withhold statehood from the territory of oklahoma until such time as Congress felt like admitting that territory into Union with the United States, as a Sovereign State but at the time Congress made its Pre-statehood Reservation the territory of oklahoma was just that, a territory under the absolute power of Congress, thus, the territory of oklahoma was not a sovereign state and the pre-statehood reservation was time limited and the reason for the reservation was justified with the local Indian Tribes that counted on Guthrie being the capital and it was well within Congress's power to make that time-limited reservation. Thirdly, the high court erred in allowing the state legislature to circumvent the accepted statewide referendum way of deciding a state question, such as where the state capital should be because by allowing the state legislature the power to move the state capital, the ones who were hurt the most, the local Indian Tribes, they would have voted the measure down but that was the brilliance in the original swindle, those involved circumvented the entire process by keeping the location of their state capital out of the Original State Constitution Proper itself, so they could simply legislate the move, whereas no other state ever left that fact out of their constitution, but the framers did include a little piece of paper on the side and on that piece of paper it was agreed to keep Guthrie the Capital of Oklahoma and since that's the only mention of where the capital was to be, that's still where it is and until the voters of Oklahoma amend their State Constitution and say otherwise by statewide referendum, Guthrie is still the Capital of Oklahoma, irregardless state legislative laws or U.S. Supreme Court decisions to the contrary.


Arguments, anyone?

Input, anyone?

Anything, anyone?

That, or will someone argue something worth arguing? Please!

Ribbit

Ps: A good majority of the major landholders in Oklahoma City got their land during the swap-over years of 1907 to 1911. Once it's determined Oklahoma City isn't the capital of Oklahoma and a statewide referendum fails, the land prices in Oklahoma City are going to plummet.

I don't recommend buying land in Oklahoma City for a while.

 

I believe that you're missing the point of this forum. Actual debate is a non-sequitur. It's pretty much just political one upmanship in a highly partisan manner. No actual debate or anything resembling it is allowed.

 

Check IQ's @ Door?

Personally, I don't believe that policy applies anywhere except your own home. If one wishes to remain ignorant at home, one may do so but once you enter the public domain, intelligent interaction is mandatory, whether you want it or kNot.

That's the way of a Republic! Never stagnating! Never stopping! Forever getting better and there's no room in a Republic for Ignorance, there's only room for that at your home, if you wish to make room for it.

A Republic is about Growth and Ignorance is about stagnation.

So it's my duty to reform the nature of this forum into a Republican form of Forum.

At least Thomas Jefferson said it was our duty to cast off tyranny any place we find it.

Ribbit

 

So who enforces that? If the members here decline intelligent interaction, and believe me they do, what does that leave?

Answer: Petty sniping and nothing even approaching debate. Welcome to Partisanlines 101.

 

Ah, Oklahoma! We've certainly had our share of outlaws that's for sure! But, it's a wonderful state. If you haven't already done so, you should visit sometime. The weather gets rowdy in the Springtime, so if you don't like thunderstorms, avoid coming during that time. It gets hot in the Summertime, but it's always been that way - nothing unusual. If you like BBQ, Oklahoma has some of the best BBQ in the nation (yes, better than Texas). But, if you like deep-dish pizza, Oklahoma isn't the place to visit. You can't beat Chicago deep-dish pizza (you got me there, Joe) especially when you're eating one IN Chicago.

 

"Don't just pray for rain but also hope for dew, to better the odds of getting wet." - Old Toad Proverb

I think it's possible to find intelligent life here but I will agree that my search has been fruitfullessly frustrating so far.

Ribbit

 

Just jotting down some rules here.

1. No childish name-calling.
2. No referencing other members in your signature.
3. No swearing or pornographic imagery.​

Peter Davis
Peter T Davis, Sep 13, 2011 Report


Read more: http://www.partisanlines.com/threads/the-rules.3892/#ixzz2qHgDLRVT

No mud sling only rules here..........

I'm game, dude, we're not a democracy, we're a republic. We hire representatives and they make the rules, they aren't our waiters taking orders. If they screw up we fire them, or should. Best I can say is we're a Democratic Republic. We elect the representatives who cast the vote and make the decisions. Actually, we don't even vote for President, the Electoral College does. Our founding fathers didn't trust us, and with good reason. I wouldn't trust me.

 

You guys weren't around for the tight control and frequent bannings of yesteryear. The moderators have eased up considerably in the last few years because they finally realized that there are only about 10-12 people here anyway and only about 4 regulars so why bother spending their time policing a bunch of kids?
Of course everyone acting like kids thinks that it is only the other people that are acting like kids but it is pretty much universal. Stu and a few other infrequent posters are the exception to the rule. Mostly, it is the unholy trio of rimmer, lil davy, and coinous that do most of the posting. They aren't interested in debate but love to play the gotcha game and it would be interesting if they were any good at it. They aren't so I play the foil and just give as good as I get. For me, this is pure entertainment and a lenz into the extremist Right-wing mind...a very dark place but as they say, know thy enemy. It has been very enlightening. Just never take this place seriously and it is a good time.

 

The Rules are Noted but you should go back and read my recent post in the Rules Thread, where I questioned the censorship and what purpose did it serve? As to the name calling, if you call me Toad, you are name calling or if I call you C Jay, I'm name calling, so the question is, what's in a name? Then, from there, the question arises, what's it take to take a name to the level of it qualifying as name calling?

Answer: Perception

How do you personal perceive the name calling? Has it gone too far? Or is it within the limits? Etc...

Censorship is the ultimate cause for any of that, do away with censorship and let us kids play but we should be expected to keep it to vinegar and spit, not knives and guns, with Tonka Toys being the exception. But you need a good dirt mover to haul the crap out sometimes.

Now, to what you said: "Our founding fathers didn't trust us, and with good reason."

You are making the same mistake the high court does with the werd state and too often that court associates the werd state with meaning the state legislature, when the state legislature is not the state, the People of the state comprise state, the legislatures do not comprise state, the legislatures comprise a legislative body known as the state legislature. You said our founding fathers didn't trust "us" and where you are going wrong is by applying that us to We the People, whereas the true Us in that statement is We the Legislatures, not We the People.

C Jay, have you ever read the Federalist? If you have, then you should know our founding fathers had a serious problem selling federalism to the legislatures of the 13 Original Colonies, they didn't have a problem selling it to We the People but our founding fathers could not get past the legislatures to even get statewide referendums on the ballot, the state legislatures controlled the ballot 100%, they controlled all in their domain; they were King of their own Domain.

That's what happened C Jay. Our founding fathers, after kicking one king's ass out of here, they turned around to find 13 kings squabbling. Where we made our biggest mistake is the first order of business Congress should have undertaken, is to have accepted the war debt as a national debt, instead of leaving every state to pay it solely. That created division and also brought about the 11th Amendment.

So, it's a given that our founding fathers had to include coercive enticements within our Constitution to get the state legislatures to buy off on federalism but in the beginning years, Congress had to tread carefully, which most of you don't even realize but the reason you don't realize that is because the high court has even missed it and what I'm talking about is there were members of Congress speaking on record and point-blank stating that the United States Government is only a temporary government and was not created to last and those many statements are on record, in the Journals & Records of both the House & Senate.

The war of 1812 is interesting ... .. .

2014 - 1812 = 202

Does anyone know what happened in 202 AD?

Ribbit

 

In 202 AD Rome banned female gladiators. I think that started the great decline.

 

Didn't they also ban doctors from brothels, at the same time?

Ribbit

 

But wasn't it Columbus who discovered venereal disease?

 

Do you know the story about the Airline employee that got the HIV virus and spread it worldwide? He was just re-enacting Columbus, it's just he just used a plane to get around instead of a boat.

Ever hear of Fractal Math?

Everything is Fractal! Everything!

Ribbit

 

View attachment 2246
Absolutely......


How about Fibonacci Numbers........

 

There's more than the Fibonacci Sequencing involved, there's also Pyramidal Sequencing as well, a bi-versal sequencing. But no one is catching the Pyramidal Sequencing underneath the Fibonacci Sequencing.

However, bi-versal primers seem to be a problem for the human race to understand.

Butt such is the nature of a society founded on Closed System Math, via Single Verse Closed System Numbers. That society cannot see Open System Solutions for such is the nature of a Closed System, it cannot see outside of itself, thus, it cannot see nor fathom Open System Solutions and bi-versal primers are Open System Primers, just like the Universe is bi-versal, so too would be the primers to all of this, or so the Open System Theory of Relativity dictates:

"Everything is Relative to SourCe and SourCe is Relative to Everything." - Old Toad Proverb

Butt when a System thinks it's Closed, when it isn't, how do you managed to get them to see outside of themselves to see the real truth, especially the so-called edumacated ones with PHuck'D's backing them up, or Double Masters or the likes? They are drowning in their own stupidity and they don't realize it.

Ribbit

Ps: The reason the PHuck'D's don't realize they're drowning is because they're on top and as the Rule of Gravity stipulates, he on top drowns last when the BoAt is sinking.