Getting To The Bottom Of Fairness & Equality

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Mopar Dude, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    Bigotry.... The ugliest word in the English language. Yet it does exist. I'll start out by making a point that I rarely make. My wife and I are as Caucasian as it gets. Get that out of the way up front. Eight years ago at our advanced age and in a moment of senility we adopted a two year old baby girl that was the unfortunate product of a deceased single mother lost to drugs. My baby girl is quite black. I have a reason to make that point.... She is entering puberty now and the last few years she has questioned why she is brown and we are "peach" (that tickles me).... I have seen the double takes we tend to get when we go out in public, so yes via third party I have witnessed second hand the bigotry. My whole point in making this statement is that my wife and I have raised that child to be entirely color blind. And I can say with true pride that so far we have been successful.

    Now, as a businessman, I see the bigotry yet it works against me. Because I cater to commercial construction and am a Caucasian owned business I frequently have to bid commercial work at a disadvantage. You see, minority owned companies often have a 3%-5% bidding advantage over me. That is fine. However when every day meant success or failure to me twenty-five years ago, nobody offered any sort of bidding advantage to me. I say, OK if that makes things more fair then so be it. But I do believe it speaks negatively on a persons mettle, or their desire to work hard to get their own slice of the American dream.

    Now as it pertains to daily life...... I have to say that I have no sympathy towards those that treat authority with anything less than genuine respect. Yet it is a part of our daily life. Last spring I walked the hallway of a high school I was contracted to work in during the summer break. This was a primarily black school. Classes broke and the teenagers walking those hallways were so foul mouthed I was beyond stunned. The school principal had to shake me to and tell me that I couldn't say anything to these kids. I was even further stunned. I simply couldn't believe we had allowed that to be tolerated or "the new normal". Those kids needed their backsides tanned. Period. Yet, I see this behavior in adult life as well. It is as though there has been a pass allowed because of the previous centuries treatment former generations. Police officers are being randomly shot for heavens sakes! Martin Luther King was a great man that accomplished much good but I believe he would be sadly disappointed in how many act in this day and time.

    Now I know I have opened a very large can of worms. And there is much more I hope to delve into as this thread goes along. I think I have gone too long already. I firmly believe the American dream still exists for any man or woman that wishes to work hard enough to achieve it. Young folks have to be groomed to expect to work and not have the American dream be handed to them. It doesn't work that way. And again, I am here to understand and promote a platform to bring folks together and apologize if my comments above appear less than respectful. That is not my intent.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  2. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    @Mopar Dude I have gained a whole 'nother level of respect for you. Adopting a child at your age is quite a feat of bravery and commitment. Two big thumbs up. :D
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  3. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    Well thank you. Forgive me if I use the opportunity to gush over my baby girl for just one second here.

  4. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

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  5. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer de omnibus dubitandum

    I genuinely believe that part of racial or social bigotry started within politics, on both sides, it seems like politicians will create a spectrum of drama or political campaign issues by addressing the issues of marginalized people, for example, promoting the improvement of a minorities position in society, and whenever someone disagrees with the proposal for improvement, the opposition is immediately deemed racist, sexist, homophobic or whatever else they can be called simply because they disagree.
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  6. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    Coinblazer.... You have touched on a big part of why we are on our current path. Yes, politicians on both sides of the isle certainly do use those key words to inflame constituents of the opposing party. And at the same time, both sides will use that very same platform to promote themselves as being the "great Savior" of whichever marginalized group is their current audience. Mind you, this is not a one sided problem. And worse yet, those that we take our daily news from are just as culpable. Until we wise up enough to know we are all being baited into a tussle, we will never get anything of substance done in this nation. And I for one refuse to hand a mess like that off to your generation without a fight.
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  7. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I have witnessed political leaders talk out both sides of their mouth first hand. And I think it’s an important point particularly as it relates to “playing the race card”.

    Four years ago I was confident that Hillary Clinton would be our President. I am a business owner and have a vested interest in our leaders policies.

    Mrs. Clinton was addressing a local group of LGBT business owners. Even though I am quite straight, I had a good friend who is a gay businessman bring me along. I listened closely to all she had to say. And for a businessman she said all the right things. Controlling tax issues and federal regulations. She painted a quite amicable picture for a business owner. Now, bear in mind that her audience were business owners. I came away from that feeling slightly relieved. At the time I was confident she would be our commander in chief.

    Fast forward three days. Mrs. Clinton is on TV addressing a group of Union leaders. With a very visceral scowl on her face she is pounding the podium proclaiming how she would make all the greedy businessmen pay for their greed, etc.

    Coinblazer I was not only stunned, I was truly terrified. Just three days prior I sat in an auditorium listening to her say how she was the businessman’s best friend.

    Don’t misunderstand. I am not picking on Mrs. Clinton. This same story could be echoed to some degree with almost any politician. They play to their audience and the truth always lies in their own personal interests. Those interests are being elected or re-elected. Yes, they inflame people one against the other and play the race card at will. Particularly if it will strengthen their own voting base.
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  8. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    @JoeNation ..... You made a comment in another thread that has stuck with me and the more I think about it, the deeper it disturbs me.

    Paraphrasing, your comment was that prior to impending conflict, reason and communication break down. Fact is, you are 100% correct about that. From your perspective, is our nation headed towards an impending divide and subsequent conflict?
  9. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    I guess the short answer is no. We've been through times like this in our history before and we have managed to heal ourselves and move forward. I think that we will be fine in the end. I have to believe that for my kids and their kids sake.
    Although the ugliness of racism and bigotry have always existed and divided us as a country to some degree, we always have progressed beyond those crass ideals eventually, again to some degree. I am confident that future generations will move past the failures of this generation. However, no one will look back at us and say that we were the greatest generation because we have let the ugly voices do the speaking for us through our leaders, our policies, and through our inactions.
    I am also not worried that history will judge us harshly. We probably deserve the judgment we get. History doesn't look at us as individuals, it sees us as a collective. While I certainly don't agree with caging children, concentration-style immigrant camps, and taking children off of life saving medical interventions, I have no doubt that I will be lumped in with those that do support such practices through their support of leaders with ugliness in their hearts. My fate, I guess, and yours.
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  10. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    @Mopar Dude

    I think that Hillary Clinton was the worst presidential candidate that a major American political party has ever nominated for president. You have to go back to 1884 when the Republicans nominated James G. Blain to find one who was as dishonest. He took money from the railroad industry and got caught red handed at it. Then you could go back Horace Greely in 1872 who was mentally unbalanced. Greely was committed to mental institution not long after the election and died shortly thereafter.

    The Clintons, with their phony foundation, raked in hundreds of millions and used a good part of that money for their personal benefit. Little was made of it, but soon after she won the nomination, the foundation paid millions in back taxes because it was found the money not been used for the projects it was supposed to fund. The Clintons had many devices destroyed that held information about what they up to, and deleted emails that contained incriminating evidence. She had that private server for a reason. The truth will probably never be known.

    For the record I think that Bill Clinton, on balance, was a decent president, but I would compare her to Shakespeare’s Lady Macbeth. She has been totally dishonest, and has always acted as if she was above the law. It seems that she can never get her hands on enough money or gain enough power to get more.

    This country dodged a bullet when she lost the election. Even my ultra liberal brother-in-law, who is an attorney who lives and works in New York City, said that she should be impeached, even before the election.

    I sincerely hope that she stays in her political coffin where she belongs.
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  11. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I have no doubt that history will judge is unfavorably. We have the technology and resources to do great things. Yet we choose to keep ourselves mired in this quagmire that only helps those spewing the divisiveness.

    That said, I recognize that there is true passion on both sides of these inflamed issues. I would like to believe that as a civilized nation we were able to rise above the bigotry and atrocities of the middle last century. We have risen above the segregation and terrible mindsets that existed mid-twentieth century. I believe we can rise above our current troubles as well.

    I like to frame issues to my personal experiences. I don’t know if you remember the large Cuban migration that occurred late 1970’s. I was a guard at a Cuban immigrant camp for a brief period during my army days. There were in fact large locked up communities of Cuban immigrants. Though this was only so those in charge had the opportunity to properly vet these folks. I remember it was quite temporary and families were together during the process. I concede that I was a kid and my memories are vague...... But I hear the message spoken concerning the current wave of immigrants. And I readily admit I have no firsthand knowledge. Is it wrong to detain a group long enough to properly vet them? If I were inviting a family into my home say to escape the coming hurricane, I would want to sit and talk with them to at least get to know them before I invited them into the sanctity of my home. Isn’t that in reality all we are doing with this overwhelming wave of immigrants hoping to get a slice of the American Dream?
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  12. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    I have always maintained that the two sides of the divide have way more in common than they have differences. The voices I spoke of, whether they be Left or Right, get the most attention if they yell the loudest. I have to ask myself why the most extreme viewpoints on either side seem to get the most attention while the rest of, I'd claim the majority of us, don't share these extreme viewpoints and yet we sit at our computers, in front of our TVs, and distract ourselves with anything that drowns out the noise. Eventually, we we are forced to side with one camp or the other and we are always left with a choice between two bad options and we usually go with the side that gave us comfort in the past hoping that it will all work out. I for one, think that this false choice is merely a death spiral resulting in not the best and brightest leaders, but rather the dregs at the bottom of the barrel. How sad for us and our children.
    This immigration catastrophe is just a symptom of how far we have fallen. We need to step back and ask ourselves if this is the America we want to leave our children. Do you know anybody that hasn't been affected in some way by the incredible number of mass shootings we have in this country? I can think of several that I have a personal connection with. Two of my kids have been personal affected by the Big Pharma sponsored opioid crisis. My oldest, had a severely broken ankle and was given opioids for pain. He came to us a year later and said that he had a rough time quitting the pain killers and today is an addiction researcher at a major university. In fact, he is a publish research author on several academic papers on addiction. My second oldest was in college when he had to breakdown his friend's door to find that he had overdosed on opioids. His friend had broken his foot skateboarding and was prescribed opioids for pain and couldn't fight the addiction. His parents were both pharmacists, he was their only child. Has anybody gone to jail for the 200,000 opioid deaths we've had in this country. I laugh at the very idea that it would ever happen. Capitalism and politics have their own special get out of jail free cards. We individuals, go to jail for 20 years if we steal 50 bucks. Such a world we live in.
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  13. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    I have followed the news long enough and remember enough to see things go full cycle on this opioid crisis. One of the worst places to get medical advice is from the news media. They report stories to get headlines without spending much time trying find out the accuracy of what they are reporting. I’ve seen stories contradict themselves within a matter of weeks.

    They report some studies as fact with out going to whether the same size was big enough or if the results are really statistically significant.

    Several years ago, the news media was reporting that doctors were not prescribing enough pain killers. They reported that some doctors thought their patients should just “rough out” how that was cruel and unusual. That caused the pendulum in the other direction. That, combined with the profit motive drove some irresponsible corporations and doctors, to oversubscribe pain killers and make inaccurate claims about the safety of some of them.

    Then the pendulum swung back, and now some us caught in the middle.

    A couple years ago I had kidney store. It was absolute hell. The doctor put a stint in which made the pain even worse. I knew I had to drink a lot of water to get the things out of me after I had them broken up, but pain from going to the bathroom was intense. All I had was enhanced Ibuprofen, but it wasn’t doing the job. I called doctor, but it was the weekend, and he would not proscribe anything over the phone because of the law. If I was to get any relief, it could not be for two days.

    I ended up self-medicating. I mixed up a few Manhattans, with 100 Proof whiskey, and that got me through it for the weekend. On Monday I got something stronger and took a couple of pills, which all I needed until the stent came out.

    What is to be done for many of us who need a little help with pain once in a great while? Does everyone have to suffer because of the problems others have? How do you regulate this?

    What about my terminally ill mother-in-law who is now on morphine? The only way she could get relief was to go on hospice. She could not get morphine unless she was under that system. Does it really matter if a 90 year old person, who is going to die soon, gets hooked? She can’t recover from what is wrong with her.

    These issues are not that simple.
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  14. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I hear that. In the last three years I have had three kidney stones, one with the stent from hell, had my left foot fused together, a new knee in May and last week a chest implant to keep my ticker in order. I maintain quite an overstock of opioid pain killers. I have never used the full amount prescribed to me. And man when I had the knee replaced, I would have died without them...... However there is a problem here. It is shocking the number of young people that have lost their lives to this stuff and I readily admit that I do not understand the addictive personality.

    The negative unintended consequence of regulating health care was removing the ability of doctors to treat a patient. They are required to satisfy insurance requirements. My knee doctor apologized to me after my knee surgery. He told me that I had to live with the bad knee for almost a year while he did all the treatments required by insurance before he could replace the knee. Thing is, every person is unique and insurance requirements do not address that.... See my pain tolerance is high. I could get by on ten pain pills but the doctor is required to prescribe thirty as dictated by the insurance provider.

    So yes we are stuck in a damned if you do or damned if you don’t predicament here. I do believe in short order that opioid pain killers will soon be restricted to hospital use only. Gonna make it tough on us old guys treating kidney stone pain with Tylenol and such. But we have to get this stuff out of the reach of young folks that often become addicted due to peer pressure. I would choose to deal with pain if it meant saving a young persons life.
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  15. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    Very, very well put.
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  16. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    We must all be in our 60's. The only people in my life that I talk about health issues with are my friends and family that happen to be my age or older. Do you ever watch your kids eye's rollover every time someone talks about a health issue? LOL! It drives them crazy.

    However, I've had kidney stones every 10-12 years since I was 25. I have learned one thing that works when I have an attack. GO DIRECTLY THE ER WHEN THE PAIN STARTS GETTING BAD. The only thing that takes away the pain is an injection of morphine or some other narcotic that knocks you out. I can feel them coming on for a couple of hours and that is all the warning I need.

    The catheterization is nothing you should be awake for. Consciousness just isn't worth a damn at that point. :(
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  17. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    Guilty as charged. However I am quite confident that just last week I was a young stud!
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
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  18. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Hey @LucyRay. Welcome back. Long time.

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