Do you ever get tired of politics?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by CoinBlazer, Sep 26, 2019.

  1. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer de omnibus dubitandum

    I've been following politics heavily since I've become my schools debate president, and man, sometimes I question why I even bother! It is sometimes really tiring to hear the slander, news, arguing, insults, Blah blah blah. I can deal in political theory alot better but it does take a mental toll after focusing so much on it!
     
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  2. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    In a perfect world, everything would run smoothly, we wouldn't be able to name our politicians because they would always look out for our best interests, and the media never had to bother telling us what some elected official did or said that day because it just didn't make news, but we get the politicians we deserve not the ones we want.
     
  3. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Active Member

    The trouble is you can’t ignore politics because so much is at stake.

    The Socialist Democrats are out to take my wife’s annuities she earned for working at the same company for 28 years, our stock portfolio we have accumulated over 40 years and my home with the mortgage paid. In the good old days you only had to worry about the Hubert Humphrey - Lyndon Johnson types who only wanted sky high taxes. Now you have Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren who want it all so that they can establish the “socialist paradise,” known to the realists as the Road to Serfdom.

    The big difference between to the Trump Republicans and the fascist left is that we leave people with options. Under us, if you want live in a collective, you can move to California or Vermont and push those states as far left as you want. Under them, they will force everyone, everywhere to live under their system. No one will have any other choice.
     
  4. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    Good lord, yes I do @CoinBlazer ...... Leading up to this last election I was fully consumed. The radio in my office and in my truck were continually on some political newsspeak sort of station. I was so consumed with it all that I was truly miserable. There was a day that the employees in my office staged an intervention on me! They walked in and took my radio and replaced it with a CD player that could only play music. A photo of the thing is below. They were tired of seeing me worried and miserable. It's funny now but honestly I did not realize how consumed and stressed out I was worrying over our future elected leaders. I do try to keep things in perspective a little better now.

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  5. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    I would say that you have no idea what you are talking about but you do that so well on your own. So Democrats are both Socialists AND Fascists? I'm voting for any party that is that talented. o_O

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  6. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Active Member

    Hitler called his party “The National Socialists.” Mussolini was a Socialist who came up with the idea of basing party loyalty around nationalism instead of the old communist concept of the internationalist movement. Even the Russians gave in and pushed the nationalist concept of “Mother Russia” to keep its citizens glued to the cause. Nationalism put former KBG agent, Vladimir Putin, in charge.

    There is really very little difference between fascism and communism. Supposedly fascism allows some limited property rights with heavy handed state regulations, but in the end, it’s the same thing as communism and socialism with equally disastrous results for human rights. The idea of placing communism and fascism on opposite sides of the political spectrum come from you guys, probably after Hitler broke his nonaggression pact with Stalin in 1940.

    You should read the book, Liberal Fascism. You might learn something about the realities of the movement you support.
     
  7. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Here are a few facts from the Encyclopedia Britannica that I’m sure you will fail to comprehend and instead fall back on your nonsense Fox talking points. Bon Appetite:


    Were the Nazis socialists? No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. But to address this canard fully, one must begin with the birth of the party.


    In 1919 a Munich locksmith named Anton Drexler founded the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (DAP; German Workers’ Party). Political parties were still a relatively new phenomenon in Germany, and the DAP—renamed the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP; National Socialist German Workers’ Party, or Nazi Party) in 1920—was one of several fringe players vying for influence in the early years of the Weimar Republic. It is entirely possible that the Nazis would have remained a regional party, struggling to gain recognition outside Bavaria, had it not been for the efforts of Adolf Hitler. Hitler joined the party shortly after its creation, and by July 1921 he had achieved nearly total control of the Nazi political and paramilitary apparatus.


    To say that Hitler understood the value of language would be an enormous understatement. Propaganda played a significant role in his rise to power. To that end, he paid lip service to the tenets suggested by a name like National Socialist German Workers’ Party, but his primary—indeed, sole—focus was on achieving power whatever the cost and advancing his racist, anti-Semitic agenda. After the failure of the Beer Hall Putsch, in November 1923, Hitler became convinced that he needed to utilize the teetering democratic structures of the Weimar government to attain his goals.


    Over the following years the brothers Otto and Gregor Strasser did much to grow the party by tying Hitler’s racist nationalism to socialist rhetoric that appealed to the suffering lower middle classes. In doing so, the Strassers also succeeded in expanding the Nazi reach beyond its traditional Bavarian base. By the late 1920s, however, with the German economy in free fall, Hitler had enlisted support from wealthy industrialists who sought to pursue avowedly anti-socialist policies. Otto Strasser soon recognized that the Nazis were neither a party of socialists nor a party of workers, and in 1930 he broke away to form the anti-capitalist Schwarze Front (Black Front). Gregor remained the head of the left wing of the Nazi Party, but the lot for the ideological soul of the party had been cast.


    Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month. That July Hitler banned all political parties other than his own, and prominent members of the German Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps. Lest there be any remaining questions about the political character of the Nazi revolution, Hitler ordered the murder of Gregor Strasser, an act that was carried out on June 30, 1934, during the Night of the Long Knives. Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished.
     
  8. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    You should read The True Believer by Eric Hoffer. You won't learn anything but the answers are there just the same.
     
  9. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Active Member

    Your lengthy history doesn’t sound much different from Stalin’s rise to power. The only difference was that Stalin and Lennon were taking over a backward nation so they did not have to deal with the industrialists; they just went ahead with their dictatorship.

    Hitler killed 9 million people, including 6 million Jews. Stalin killed far more, perhaps 30 million, if you include all the people he starved and froze to death.

    In the end there is no difference between Stalin and Hitler. Stalin looks better to some people because he was our ally in World War II. All he was doing was saving his hide.
     
  10. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    And the failure to comprehend is complete. :cool:
     
  11. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Active Member

    Only for those who can’t understand the subtleties of politics, like you. Your arrogance renders you ignorant. Or it might be that you are a Stalinist at heart. If so you are a true political relic.

    A friend I knew in undergraduate school summed up the similarities between the extreme left and the extreme right quite well. They start out back to back like two duelists. They keep walking, eventually in semicircles until they meet each other head on with the same tactics and the same results. Hitler and Stalin used the same tactics, and both them were the worst butchers of the 20th century. I have a hard time deciding which one was worse.

    Hitler was the dictator of a relatively small Central European country and had to wage war against his neighbors to expand. Stalin was the dictator of a vast European and Asian country which he needed to conquer. He didn’t need to attack his neighbors because he had plenty to conquer within his own backyard. After the war Stalin made his land grab when he dropped the Iron curtain over Eastern Europe. Unlike Hitler, he was not a fool. He was ready to grab more if the western allies were unwilling to defend it. NATO helped to prevent that from happening.
     
  12. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    @JohnHamilton You find it necessary to look back to the early 20th century to push your canard that the entire Democratic Left are just Socialists and Fascists as some kind of proof of your extreme views and odd opinions and you never fail to devolve into childish name-calling as a debate strategy, such that it is.

    Why not look at the events of today such as white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia that erupted in fatal violence in August 2017 and drew howls of criticism from all but his most loyal supporters. Nazi-friendly organizations, Nazi symbols, and Nazi gestures were in evidence at the disastrous Charlottesville event, whose unfortunate title was not “Unite the Left,” but “Unite the Right.” As an ultra-nationalist, socially conservative, anti-egalitarian and fascist ideology, Nazism naturally falls on the extreme far-right end of the political spectrum.

    Donald Trump, courted a nativist, anti-immigrant constituency in the 2016 election and he has their loyalty now. If I had to label you, I'd say that you are an ethno-nationalist -- the belief that the interests of native-born people must be defended against encroachment by immigrants. You can't support the likes of Donald Trump without owning what he stands for.
     
  13. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    I was thinking about this point of exhaustion people reach and I think that it results from the sheer number of both genuine scandals and the number of non-scandals that the opposing party tries to create whether they are actual scandals or not. Of course, when your party isn't the party in power, ALL scandals are genuine, and when your party is in power, ALL scandals are phony. The party in power is far more exposed to the accusations of scandal by the very nature of being in power.

    The fatigue factor is related to constantly having the opposing party coming at your party over and over and over so that you feel constantly attacked. It wears you out if you have to keep defending your party even when you know that they are probably wrong in some of these situations. Yeah, that's the game we play.

    Thanks to Trump's total lack of political experience and his natural New York Mafia tendencies, you have your job cut out for you defending him. I am, on the hand, enjoying his self-destruction and I don't equate it with the demise of the country as is always the criticism. The bringing down of a corrupt politician is everyone's patriotic duty but they will tell you that it is hurting America. Nonsense, corruption hurts this country far more than any single political figure's personal reputation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  14. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Active Member

    The fatigue factor is related to the fact that you and your cohorts never gave Trump a chance. You are mad as hell that he won the 2016 election, and you have done all you could to remove him from office before he took The Oath of Office. You people are just a bunch of angry children who have daily temper tantrums because you did not get what you wanted.

    If you want to be relevant, why don’t you show some objectivity? What about the fact that the Ukrainian energy company paid Biden’s son $50,000 a month despite that fact that he has no expertise in the energy field? How about Biden’s comments that he held up a billion dollars in aid until the prosecutor who was looking into the deal with his son was fired? It has all be recorded, and Biden was laughing about it. Does that matter to you?

    If you would talk about this issue, you would show that you political opinions are based on some level of fairness and reality.
     
  15. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Pot meet kettle.
     
  16. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    I can see how the Democrats picked up the phone and forced Trump to call a foreign leader and shake him down for dirt on his political opponent.

    Those rascally Democrats.

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  17. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Active Member

    Oh, so you have condemned Joe Biden? I’m not surprised since Warren is you candidate.

    So that’s the best defense you can offer Joe, is it? Pots and kettles... I know that he used to be one of the most liberal senators. Now that your party has gone completely socialist, you can send him out to pasture. Not that that is bad thing. The man is way past his prime, not that his prime ever amounted to much.
     
  18. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Active Member

    And you ignore or support Antifa and the acts of violence it commits.

    I condemn the racist acts of the White supremacists in Charlottesville, but I do support the rights of citizens to protest the removal of Confederate statues just because they offend some snowflakes who didn’t know any American history a month ago.

    There is a lot to be learned from the Confederate leaders. Some of them were very talented individuals who made very bad choices. Juda Benjamin, who was the Confederate attorney general, among many other posts, became a leading light in the British court system after the war. John Breckinridge, the youngest man ever elected Vice President of the United States, was a very talented leader who could have offered this country a great deal had he made other choices. Robert E. Lee was a military genius. All of them made bad choices because they were prisoners of their time. They should remembered as examples, and for some they are a source of regional pride.

    Yet you want to bury that history because you need to rewrite to push your agenda. That’s what all of this statue wrecking is about. Hitler and Stalin did the same thing. Hitler called it “the big lie,”
     
  19. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    You'll just have to forgive me for not falling for Fox News conspiracy theories as had as you do. The Biden Ukrainian conspiracy theory is nothing more than a Right-wing fantasy from 2014 that has never produced one shred of evidence, but by all means, keep pushing it. Trump follows a pattern he has maintained in office: disregarding the consensus of U.S. intelligence officials, as well as reputable news reporting, in favor of hyperpartisan sophistry. Hooray for you for falling for such tripe.
     
  20. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    How bout we just drop it all and get on with the business of running a nation?

    I am reminded of a comment once made to me when I had an issue with a commander in the Army..... the colonel is the colonel whether you like the colonel or not.... I happen to like simple country sense and this makes just as much country sense to me today as it did in 1979.
     

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