America’s Founding Fathers and Religion

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Mopar Dude, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    I had the kind of grandfather you don’t want to have. He was a WWII Navy Seabee and spent his career after the war as a true wildcat oil man working rigs in the Middle East even while that region was warring. He was a large, grizzled and very intimidating man that would give John Wayne a run for his money in the machismo department...... I said all that because I spent my formative years growing up in his home. He was a no-nonsense man that had absolutely zero space in his life for organized religion...... I flew home ten years ago when he was near the end and sat bedside with him. He knew I had a relationship with God and on his deathbed he asked for a minister. A few calls and a man of the cloth arrived and spent maybe forty-five minutes alone with my dying granddad. When the minister left I was astonished to find a peaceful look on his old weathered face for the first time since I knew him, though he didn’t share with me the conversation that took place between them.

    I tell that story because though I do not know, I would most imagine that his story is not unique. I can also recall the movement our nation made to the church after 9/11. Though I do not have statistics, I believe that I can say that in times of national tragedy, a great segment of our nation looks heavenward for peace and understanding.

    Having said that I also believe I am correct in saying that our founding fathers instituted the documents that created our nation based on sound biblical principles. If I am wrong in that statement, I apologize. I readily admit that this is an entirely personal observation. If I am wrong, the remainder of my observation has no merit.

    Fact is, we don’t know what if anything lies heavenward. But if there may have been a guiding hand in the creation of our nation. And if that guiding hand played a part in our victory over a vastly superior British army. And further if that guiding hand had any part in the success that now provides for most of us a comfortable and cushy lifestyle...... Would it be much of a stretch to think that guiding hand, creator, God, Allah or whatever you choose to call him may be displeased with how easily we shun his presence in our nation in the 21st century?
     
  2. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Nice story about your grandfather. He must have been some kind of character. I'm sure that your beliefs helped you with the pain of losing him.

    As far as God favoring one side in a conflict over the another side, it is important to remember that you can't name one major conflict in recent history or further back where both sides didn't claim that God was on their side. In that way, God wins every time since the victors always write the history books.

    The Nazis had an Aryan Jesus not the Hebrew Jesus you worship and if the Germans would have triumphed in WWII, you would see no references to Jesus being a Jew today. Makes you think doesn't it? The idea of Jesus changes over time. For instance, he is now represented as a white guy. There were no white guys in the Middle East 2000 years ago. Why does Jesus look like a guy from Northern Europe these days? The reason is because the image of God has to represent the people that he is being sold to.

    Do you know that the stories you were told about the virgin birth, the great flood, the Son of God on Earth, didn't even originate with Christianity? For instance, Krishna is the second person of the Hindu Trinity. (The Trinity, sound familiar?) He is considered to be one of the incarnations of the God Vishnu (An incarnation from God, sound familiar?). Some Hindus believe that he lived on Earth during perhaps the 2nd or 3rd century BCE. However, Traditional belief based on scriptural details and astrological calculations gives Krishna's birth year as 3228 BCE. Yeshua of Nazareth is generally regarded as having been born in Palestine circa 4 to 7 BCE. Thus, if there are many points of similarities between these two individuals, most skeptics and some religious liberals would accept that elements of Krishna's life were incorporated into the legends associated with Jesus rather than vice-versa.

    My feeling is that if a religious belief gives you comfort in some aspect of your life and makes you a better person, then by all means practice the hell out of it. It's never the pious that are of concern, it is the zealots that use God as a weapon in a fit of religious extremism that I have a problem with. When it becomes the reason to hate gay people, go to war with other faiths, subjugate women, and brutalize non-believers in the name of God, I can't just dismiss those practices as a few bad apples. In every movement religious or otherwise, there are the true believers, the go-along-to-get-along types, and those that passively stand by afraid to speak up. It isn't enough to just not be one of the zealots. You can contribute just as much to the evil men do by doing nothing.

    Look at true theocracies that exist today. Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen. Do these seem like places that you would feel free? History has proven many times that Christianity isn't above the brutality men are capable of unleashing on their fellow man. By just about any measure, the United States is seen as a Christian country even if we don't have a national religion officially. When soldiers go marching into the Middle East, they are considered Christian invaders. And yes, we believe that God is on our side.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  3. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    You are 100% correct. I hadn't considered that and it does have merit.

    I will again defer to the fact that I am not nearly as well read as I would like to be. However I did know that the great flood has been documented in some very ancient texts. Texts written long before the scriptures. While I would agree there is likely artistic license at play in the book of Genesis, I think the fact that the story has been shared in very ancient texts does lend credence to some factual basis to the story.

    I had attributed this in my mind to the great masters paintings from the middle ages. I entirely agree that Jesus of Nazareth was probably not a beautiful man to behold and likely had an outward appearance more like any desert dwelling middle eastern man. A mans appearance to me anyway is of absolute zero importance. I assure you I do not see a black baby girl lying in bed each morning when I wake her fussy butt up for school. I simply see a beautiful baby girl..... In the middle ages there was likely more of a need to sell Jesus to the masses since most average folks didn't have the opportunity to read the scriptures for themselves.

    Thing is that I believe I can safely say there has been enough historical evidence brought to light that we would have to agree that Jesus of Nazareth was as much of an historical figure as was George Washington. And I didn't set out to debate the factual basis of mine or anyone else's faith here. See, it is easy for us to sit in our easy chair in an air conditioned comfortable room sipping a cool beverage from our refrigerators while accessing digital media to communicate worldwide with folks. All these conveniences we take for granted every day because we are fortunate to live in a great nation where the foundation has been laid for all this to make our lives comfortable and cozy while we debate the merits of the very foundation we are taking for granted.

    From a personal perspective, I had two sons. I bought them both their first cars. My oldest son cared for his car, changed the oil and did all the responsible things that a car owner should do. When he had larger problems with the car, dad helped him out. My second son covered his car in skateboard stickers and spent his money on wild wheels and boom boxes. My second son did not appreciate what I provided him and he blew his engine. I did not fix that problem for him.

    Having said that, I'll put forth the extreme view that I feel to some degree our forefathers were somewhat divinely inspired. The documents they forged were as meaningful 243 years ago as they are today. From an entirely personal perspective, I do not believe that was by accident. I do truly have concern that we are in effect poking our finger in the very eye that laid our foundation for us by inviting said divine inspiration out of public view and our very lives. And when we do blow our proverbial national engine, he won't be there to fix it for us.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
    JoeNation likes this.
  4. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    It was common for prominent men in the 1700's to be pious and speak with the authority of God both in their daily communications and their writings. It lent them an air of respectability and a kinship with their fellow citizens. It was expected regardless of what they believed in the privacy of their own homes. We shouldn't try and read too much into their references to God or spirituality, it was just the vernacular of the day.
     
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  5. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    That is an interesting story about your sons and the different ways they treated your generosity. It reminded me of buying my sons each $300 Trek bikes when they were teenagers. My middle son was biking around with his friends and they decided to stop at this kid’s house and play video games. They all left their bikes in the front year of a relatively nice neighborhood….unlocked. When my son came out, someone had left an old rusty bike with flat tires and bent rims and took his $300 bike. My thinking was that I provided the bike and the lock and if he wasn’t going to take care of his possessions, I wasn’t going to be the one to replace them as a result of his negligence. He saved up some money and bought a used bike that wasn’t nearly as nice as the bike he had and he fixed it up, with a little help from me, and used it until he left for college. He learned two valuable lessons. He learned how to take care of his stuff and how to repair bikes.

    I never did buy any of my kids cars because they never wanted cars. Kids today don’t seem to be into cars like we were when we were their age. I did give one of them my old car when he moved out west because I no longer needed it and it was in really good shape. He now knows how to take care of a car as well as a bike. Win-win. I may give my youngest the Honda Ridgeline I currently have. He is moving out west eventually and will need a good car.

    I know that you’ve mentioned cars often and your name is a pretty good indication of the hobby you love. Both my brothers were into cars and motorcycles but I just wanted reliable transportation. They both owned a pair of ’68 Cameros, one for them and one for their wives. Here is a picture of my late brother motorcycle. The guy he bought it from laid it down and destroyed it. My brother customized it and rebuilt it. I don’t think I have a picture of his ’68 Camero but his son still owns both vehicles. Notice the nitro burner along the gas tank.


    Bike3.GIF
     
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  6. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    Yes sir I do appreciate a lovingly restored set of wheels. And that absolutely does get my engine running!
     
  7. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    Only photo I had on my work computer. From a summer cruise in.... My old car, though my grandson will tell you it is his, is the red one.
    photo.jpg
     
    JoeNation likes this.
  8. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

  9. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    Seriously? This isn’t one of those photoshopped meme things?
     
  10. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    And now for the rest of the story.... New Era Baptist is a primarily black church. The sign is a protest against a mega church that plans to build in the same neighborhood. The mega church is a primarily Caucasian church. The signs intent was to persuade the black church members from leaving New Era to attend the new Caucasian based mega church.
     
  11. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    It is an actual sign that was photographed and turned into a meme. I looked it up to see if I could verify it and found nothing either to prove or disprove it. If you find something, let me know and I will remove it.
     
  12. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Please post a link to this webpage.
     
  13. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    Well Joe..... I would do better trying to solve a nuclear physics problem. Some reason, me and technology do not get along well together. That's actually funny when you know that my wife is head of technology services at a major university......... When I bring that website up on my computer it freezes. It is a local news station. Put in WVTM13.com and search Birmingham Pastor. That should get you there.
     
  14. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    I did find it eventually. It is what my son calls "click-bait". While the photo is real, the actual headline is misleading. It makes people click on it so that the Ads get more views. It was a black Baptist Church sign pointing out some issue with a megachurch that was being built or proposed near to where they were. The other side of the sign made it clear. I got click- baited. Maybe Peter will delete it for me.
     
    Mopar Dude likes this.

Share This Page